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Post by oujour76 on May 13, 2015 17:38:45 GMT -5
I think FSU "ducked" the SEC in much the same way that UF "ducks" OOC games outside of Florida.
You're just waiting to remind the nolies that those 78 and 79 great teams lost back to back Orange Bowls to Oklahoma. A dynasty they were not. Not at all...just saying that maybe FSU did what it had to do to become a national power. They didn't need the SEC to reach that goal, so why join the SEC?
Florida gets accused of ducking OOC games outside of Florida. UF's attitude is we don't need OOC games outside of Florida, so why do it?
Similar arguments imo.
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Post by lz2112 on May 13, 2015 17:54:02 GMT -5
Like I said ET, it annoys the hell out of Nole fans when Bowden admits that. I would guess Bobby Bowden has a better grasp of what helped kick start his dynasty than the average fans does. As I said, I guess it depends on the context. Prior to UF cheating...how many top 10 finishes had UF had in its history? Zero. How many had FSU had? Two. In 1979 and 1980. Now, if you want to argue that FSU used UFs probation to springboard into the monumental run that no team has seen before or since...OK.But the way Gators would portray it...and the way you're implying here is that but for UF going on probation...FSU would be an afterthought. And that's patently incorrect...our 79 and 80 team finished better than any in UF history, and had done so despite UF having a 50 year head start in football. Actually, I was saying what the bolded part above says. Nowhere did I imply there would have been no run, that was your Nole paranoia whispering in your ear.
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Post by nitronole on May 13, 2015 19:22:11 GMT -5
FSU is in the ACC instead of the SEC because of $$$ at the time, and because Hootie Ingram was no longer AD at FSU. Bowden didn't have ANY problem the hell out of UF when UF was easily beating the hell out of all other SEC teams....FSU would have more SEC title than UF currently has, and that is a FACT !!!! Don't confuse the current SEC to the SEC of the late 80's and 90's.
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Post by nitronole on May 13, 2015 19:31:53 GMT -5
In 79, UF was winless. Pell didn't have the studs in place from cheating for that to be the cause of UF starting a 6 game win streak against FSU in 1980. UF 83/84/85 were pretty darn good. 80/81/82 were down a notch compared to 83/84/85. It's true the FSU dynasty started at the time UF's probation started. I'd say Bobby Bowden is being honest about ducking the SEC and lz is right about Bobby Bowden's admission of when UF's probation started and FSU's dynasty began. Besides being good in the late 70s, FSU was pretty good in the 60s under Peterson as well. The Darrell Mudra years were the exception as FSU was good before and after. I think FSU "ducked" the SEC in much the same way that UF "ducks" OOC games outside of Florida.
considering that FSU had the #2 rated SOS for the 90's pretty much suggests they did not DUCK any team. Perhaps a refresher course in why they were called "The Road Warriors' would help your memory. Some still call it the MOST BRUTAL AWAY SCHEDULE EVER!!!!!Ohio St, LSU, Pitt, Nebraska....any team, anywhere.....no ducking by FSU...
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Post by nitronole on May 13, 2015 19:38:50 GMT -5
He's incorrect there too. FSU was pretty good in the late 70s and early 80s, which is what lead to UF hiring Pell (in part) and lead to UF cheating in the first place. In 79, UF was winless. Pell didn't have the studs in place from cheating for that to be the cause of UF starting a 6 game win streak against FSU in 1980. UF 83/84/85 were pretty darn good. 80/81/82 were down a notch compared to 83/84/85. It's true the FSU dynasty started at the time UF's probation started. I'd say Bobby Bowden is being honest about ducking the SEC and lz is right about Bobby Bowden's admission of when UF's probation started and FSU's dynasty began. Besides being good in the late 70s, FSU was pretty good in the 60s under Peterson as well. The Darrell Mudra years were the exception as FSU was good before and after. IMO...Ron Simmons started the beginning of the build up to the start of the Dynasty at FSU:
..... Ron Simmons was considered one of Florida State's "greatest recruiting victories" when he signed out of high school.[10] Simmons was an All-American football player at Florida State University (FSU) from 1977 to 1980 under coach Bobby Bowden After 4 straight loses to FSU, UF hired a KNOWN cheater and did whatever it took to begin beating FSU again, like they were accustomed to doing.
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Post by trnyerheadncough on May 13, 2015 19:57:17 GMT -5
Also, it should be noted that the SEC of the early 1990s wasn't the SEC of the last decade. Nowhere close.
When FSU joined, Clemson had a decade where they were arguably better than any SEC team during the same period, Georgia Tech had just won a national championship in 1990, and Virginia was starting its solid football run under George Welsh.
Don't get me wrong...the ACC wasn't as good top to bottom as the SEC was in 1991, but it wasn't this monumental chasm.
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Post by oujour76 on May 13, 2015 20:18:16 GMT -5
I think FSU "ducked" the SEC in much the same way that UF "ducks" OOC games outside of Florida.
considering that FSU had the #2 rated SOS for the 90's pretty much suggests they did not DUCK any team. Perhaps a refresher course in why they were called "The Road Warriors' would help your memory. Some still call it the MOST BRUTAL AWAY SCHEDULE EVER!!!!!Ohio St, LSU, Pitt, Nebraska....any team, anywhere.....no ducking by FSU... I don't think they ducked anybody. Perhaps you should have followed the entire conversation.
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Post by daleko on May 13, 2015 23:14:33 GMT -5
I don't think they ducked anybody. Perhaps you should have followed the entire conversation. In this case true but that mean some schools don't switch conf and go West so they don't have to face their daddy and get taken to the woodshed every yr.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2015 0:30:06 GMT -5
You're just waiting to remind the nolies that those 78 and 79 great teams lost back to back Orange Bowls to Oklahoma. A dynasty they were not. Not at all...just saying that maybe FSU did what it had to do to become a national power. They didn't need the SEC to reach that goal, so why join the SEC?
Florida gets accused of ducking OOC games outside of Florida. UF's attitude is we don't need OOC games outside of Florida, so why do it?
Similar arguments imo. The difference is FSU chose an easier conference which has been admitted to by Bobby Bowden. UF by staying instate in ooc has played a tougher ooc schedule than they would have had they gone out of state. Actually, I don't see the similarity at all.
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Post by daleko on May 14, 2015 1:20:27 GMT -5
Not at all...just saying that maybe FSU did what it had to do to become a national power. They didn't need the SEC to reach that goal, so why join the SEC?
Florida gets accused of ducking OOC games outside of Florida. UF's attitude is we don't need OOC games outside of Florida, so why do it?
Similar arguments imo. The difference is FSU chose an easier conference which has been admitted to by Bobby Bowden. UF by staying instate in ooc has played a tougher ooc schedule than they would have had they gone out of state. Actually, I don't see the similarity at all. BTW HB to Stevie Wonder.
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Post by oujour76 on May 14, 2015 10:15:31 GMT -5
Not at all...just saying that maybe FSU did what it had to do to become a national power. They didn't need the SEC to reach that goal, so why join the SEC?
Florida gets accused of ducking OOC games outside of Florida. UF's attitude is we don't need OOC games outside of Florida, so why do it?
Similar arguments imo. The difference is FSU chose an easier conference which has been admitted to by Bobby Bowden. UF by staying instate in ooc has played a tougher ooc schedule than they would have had they gone out of state. Actually, I don't see the similarity at all. LOL. I'm sure you don't see the similarity. What you seem to forget is that, at the end of the day, the SEC formally voted to NOT invite FSU.
Does that make the SEC scared of FSU?
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2015 10:32:36 GMT -5
The difference is FSU chose an easier conference which has been admitted to by Bobby Bowden. UF by staying instate in ooc has played a tougher ooc schedule than they would have had they gone out of state. Actually, I don't see the similarity at all. BTW HB to Stevie Wonder. Trn said it best: "Now, if you want to argue that FSU used UFs probation to springboard into the monumental run that no team has seen before or since...OK." UF played FSU all through that monumental dynasty plus played FSU in two Sugar Bowls as well. I don't think any team will match what FSU did over those 15 years, at least not in our life times. Throw in an occasional Miami and UF has played tougher ooc than most programs whether instate or out of state. I've documented that with facts here many times. The only issue is everyone would like to see UF travel to other regions, but that is easier said than done. With Miami off UF's schedule for the foreseeable future, UF will do some traveling starting with Michigan in 17 at Jerry's World. Cue the UF is afraid to play Miami comments from the hypocrites who have to have something to complain out when it comes to UF. FSU for years had a two game season, Florida and Miami. Of course, FSU had an easier road to their national championships based in the ACC rather than the SEC. This talk that the ACC was on par with the SEC in the 80s or 90s is crapola. Somebody had better produce the evidence of same for me to buy that line. Nitro, yes, it was about the money; however, we all know Bobby Bowden was all powerful in his time and he made it clear where he wanted FSU to play when joining a conference. If Bobby Bowden had said he wanted to play in the SEC, that's where FSU would have been regardless of the money. Harry, if the SEC voted against FSU membership, it was because the writing was on the wall with FSU to the ACC so it was a saving face measure. UF had actually sponsored FSU for SEC membership. You can be sure that will never happen again after FSU snubbed the SEC. All of this yak about TV coverage footprint and what does FSU bring to the conference is just blowing smoke. FSU is a football first school, a football factory, and they are an excellent fit for the SEC. The SEC is still offended for being snubbed by FSU for that inferior conference known as the ACC.
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Post by oujour76 on May 14, 2015 12:48:11 GMT -5
Trn said it best: "Now, if you want to argue that FSU used UFs probation to springboard into the monumental run that no team has seen before or since...OK." UF played FSU all through that monumental dynasty plus played FSU in two Sugar Bowls as well. I don't think any team will match what FSU did over those 15 years, at least not in our life times. Throw in an occasional Miami and UF has played tougher ooc than most programs whether instate or out of state. I've documented that with facts here many times. The only issue is everyone would like to see UF travel to other regions, but that is easier said than done. With Miami off UF's schedule for the foreseeable future, UF will do some traveling starting with Michigan in 17 at Jerry's World. Cue the UF is afraid to play Miami comments from the hypocrites who have to have something to complain out when it comes to UF. FSU for years had a two game season, Florida and Miami. Of course, FSU had an easier road to their national championships based in the ACC rather than the SEC. This talk that the ACC was on par with the SEC in the 80s or 90s is crapola. Somebody had better produce the evidence of same for me to buy that line. Nitro, yes, it was about the money; however, we all know Bobby Bowden was all powerful in his time and he made it clear where he wanted FSU to play when joining a conference. If Bobby Bowden had said he wanted to play in the SEC, that's where FSU would have been regardless of the money. Harry, if the SEC voted against FSU membership, it was because the writing was on the wall with FSU to the ACC so it was a saving face measure. UF had actually sponsored FSU for SEC membership. You can be sure that will never happen again after FSU snubbed the SEC. All of this yak about TV coverage footprint and what does FSU bring to the conference is just blowing smoke. FSU is a football first school, a football factory, and they are an excellent fit for the SEC. The SEC is still offended for being snubbed by FSU for that inferior conference known as the ACC. The SEC voted against FSU for its own good reasons. And FSU went to the ACC for its own good reasons. Not sure why you can't accept that.
Instead, you seem to accept as gospel truth that the only reason FSU went to the ACC was to duck the SEC. Look, just because Bobby Bowden paid props to the SEC does not mean that FSU was scared. Not sure why you can't see that. SEC blinders, I suppose.
After joining the ACC, FSU still maintained a very strong OOC...Nebraska, Notre Dame, BYU, USC, Texas A&M and, of course, Miami and Florida.
Now, the last few years, that has changed. Unfortunately, they have weakened their OOC and have teams like Murray State, Savannah State, The Citadel and other punching bags.
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Post by nitronole on May 14, 2015 13:46:44 GMT -5
Trn said it best: "Now, if you want to argue that FSU used UFs probation to springboard into the monumental run that no team has seen before or since...OK." UF played FSU all through that monumental dynasty plus played FSU in two Sugar Bowls as well. I don't think any team will match what FSU did over those 15 years, at least not in our life times. Throw in an occasional Miami and UF has played tougher ooc than most programs whether instate or out of state. I've documented that with facts here many times. The only issue is everyone would like to see UF travel to other regions, but that is easier said than done. With Miami off UF's schedule for the foreseeable future, UF will do some traveling starting with Michigan in 17 at Jerry's World. Cue the UF is afraid to play Miami comments from the hypocrites who have to have something to complain out when it comes to UF. FSU for years had a two game season, Florida and Miami. Of course, FSU had an easier road to their national championships based in the ACC rather than the SEC. This talk that the ACC was on par with the SEC in the 80s or 90s is crapola. Somebody had better produce the evidence of same for me to buy that line. Nitro, yes, it was about the money; however, we all know Bobby Bowden was all powerful in his time and he made it clear where he wanted FSU to play when joining a conference. If Bobby Bowden had said he wanted to play in the SEC, that's where FSU would have been regardless of the money. Harry, if the SEC voted against FSU membership, it was because the writing was on the wall with FSU to the ACC so it was a saving face measure. UF had actually sponsored FSU for SEC membership. You can be sure that will never happen again after FSU snubbed the SEC. All of this yak about TV coverage footprint and what does FSU bring to the conference is just blowing smoke. FSU is a football first school, a football factory, and they are an excellent fit for the SEC. The SEC is still offended for being snubbed by FSU for that inferior conference known as the ACC. The SEC voted against FSU for its own good reasons. And FSU went to the ACC for its own good reasons. Not sure why you can't accept that.
Instead, you seem to accept as gospel truth that the only reason FSU went to the ACC was to duck the SEC. Look, just because Bobby Bowden paid props to the SEC does not mean that FSU was scared. Not sure why you can't see that. SEC blinders, I suppose.
After joining the ACC, FSU still maintained a very strong OOC...Nebraska, Notre Dame, BYU, USC, Texas A&M and, of course, Miami and Florida.
Now, the last few years, that has changed. Unfortunately, they have weakened their OOC and have teams like Murray State, Savannah State, The Citadel and other punching bags. well when teams like Auburn, West Virginia, etc. pays us $500,000 and backs out of a contract to play FSU, it is hard finding quality opponets with such late notice......interesting FACT, the only ones backing out of anything/or ducking is SEC teams wanting to play FSU during the regular season, even UF has tried recently to refrain from playing FSU in the future...something about expanding their conference games. Gotta love the spin being put on this one by gators and/or SEC fans...it took all FSU had to get BAMA to FINALLY AGREE to play us during the regular season and they only agreed to do it if it was at a neutral site....ranked BAMA lost to unranked FSU.....DUCKING INDEED
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2015 13:53:27 GMT -5
Trn said it best: "Now, if you want to argue that FSU used UFs probation to springboard into the monumental run that no team has seen before or since...OK." UF played FSU all through that monumental dynasty plus played FSU in two Sugar Bowls as well. I don't think any team will match what FSU did over those 15 years, at least not in our life times. Throw in an occasional Miami and UF has played tougher ooc than most programs whether instate or out of state. I've documented that with facts here many times. The only issue is everyone would like to see UF travel to other regions, but that is easier said than done. With Miami off UF's schedule for the foreseeable future, UF will do some traveling starting with Michigan in 17 at Jerry's World. Cue the UF is afraid to play Miami comments from the hypocrites who have to have something to complain out when it comes to UF. FSU for years had a two game season, Florida and Miami. Of course, FSU had an easier road to their national championships based in the ACC rather than the SEC. This talk that the ACC was on par with the SEC in the 80s or 90s is crapola. Somebody had better produce the evidence of same for me to buy that line. Nitro, yes, it was about the money; however, we all know Bobby Bowden was all powerful in his time and he made it clear where he wanted FSU to play when joining a conference. If Bobby Bowden had said he wanted to play in the SEC, that's where FSU would have been regardless of the money. Harry, if the SEC voted against FSU membership, it was because the writing was on the wall with FSU to the ACC so it was a saving face measure. UF had actually sponsored FSU for SEC membership. You can be sure that will never happen again after FSU snubbed the SEC. All of this yak about TV coverage footprint and what does FSU bring to the conference is just blowing smoke. FSU is a football first school, a football factory, and they are an excellent fit for the SEC. The SEC is still offended for being snubbed by FSU for that inferior conference known as the ACC. The SEC voted against FSU for its own good reasons. And FSU went to the ACC for its own good reasons. Not sure why you can't accept that.
Instead, you seem to accept as gospel truth that the only reason FSU went to the ACC was to duck the SEC. Look, just because Bobby Bowden paid props to the SEC does not mean that FSU was scared. Not sure why you can't see that. SEC blinders, I suppose.
After joining the ACC, FSU still maintained a very strong OOC...Nebraska, Notre Dame, BYU, USC, Texas A&M and, of course, Miami and Florida.
Now, the last few years, that has changed. Unfortunately, they have weakened their OOC and have teams like Murray State, Savannah State, The Citadel and other punching bags. [/b] [/quote] I lived with the state of Florida football that occurred during that time in a way you'll never understand as an outsider. Let's agree to disagree. On what I highlighted, that scheduling didn't just happen in the last few years. It started shortly after the expansion of the ACC which made it more SEC like in difficulty on a weekly basis. It's note worthy that other than UF traveling on occasion, the nolies have quit banging UF for their ooc scheduling. It's easier to understand now when playing in a real conference. Virginia Tech has ruled the roost more often than FSU since the ACC expansion and Miami has been shown up to be an independent and Big East phony who got all of their national success as a result of playing cherry picked schedules prior to joining the expanded ACC.
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