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Post by vindex on Mar 16, 2019 13:34:55 GMT -5
I don't think it's as tough as you think. Because the structure of the test doesn't change significantly, if you spend time taking it over and over, your brain begins to recognize patterns in the questions, you begin to notice recurring questions, and it starts to get easier to figure out answers. Think of it like playing guitar. When you first pick it up its all frets and strings and organizational chaos. But slowly, it all starts fitting together in specific patterns that you start to understand without even thinking about it. Same with SAT tests. And if you're paying me big money to be an expert at taking SAT tests, I'm going to practice at least as much as I practice my Dorian scales. Money would be a good motivator, but frankly, I can't imagine taking that damn thing over and over. I never took the SAT. I took the ACT and lucked into a high score my first time so I avoided any other testing like the plague. <g> SATs are a funny but enlightening aspect of this whole scandal. They have certainly changed over the past 50 - odd years since I took them. I would agree with Walt that the structure of the test remained remarkably the same, at least over the three year period that I took it, from fall of 1964 thru fall of 1966. Of course, I also took the PSATs (Preliminary SATs) each year to try and get a running start; but as for this whole bullshit about paying to take courses in how to score bigtime on the SAT - those did not exist back in the mid-sixties as far as I know. Certainly not where I was in high school. Back in the day I myself always tested pretty well on stuff like this, which is not at all the same thing as an actual intelligence or aptitude test. But nonetheless, for whatever reason, that is how they were perceived at the county high school which I attended in rural Georgia. Bragging rights as much as anything.
I started off at a score of 1228 if I remember correctly, and crept up to a score of 1339 out of 1600 two years later. Pretty decent but doesn't look that great when compared to today's SATs with a maximum score of 2400, I believe. The main thing I remember is that I started out with a split of around 600 on the math (which I hated) and 20 or 30 points higher on the verbal. However, two years later I was well north of 620 on the verbal but had scarcely moved the needle on the math. Then as now, many colleges allowed for extra consideration of other activities on the part of applicants who had maybe just passed the minimum requirements on the SATs or ACTs, which is only fair. Fabricating test results is awfully bad, but making up extra-curricular activities and memberships seems much worse for the institutions involved. If anything, I have to say that this whole sordid story only makes me prouder of my own admission and degree at UGA. Vindex Georgia Bulldogs
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2019 16:12:37 GMT -5
Fascinating to me, I understand they had a guy who could take the SAT or ACT test and get the approximate score that was requested. They didn't want someone who previously took the SAT and got a 900 do a retake and get a 1600, so this guy was able to target say a 1350 and score pretty close to that number. Hell of a skill. I don't think it's as tough as you think. Because the structure of the test doesn't change significantly, if you spend time taking it over and over, your brain begins to recognize patterns in the questions, you begin to notice recurring questions, and it starts to get easier to figure out answers. Think of it like playing guitar. When you first pick it up its all frets and strings and organizational chaos. But slowly, it all starts fitting together in specific patterns that you start to understand without even thinking about it. Same with SAT tests. And if you're paying me big money to be an expert at taking SAT tests, I'm going to practice at least as much as I practice my Dorian scales.
What's a Dorian scale?
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Post by Walter on Mar 16, 2019 17:07:59 GMT -5
I don't think it's as tough as you think. Because the structure of the test doesn't change significantly, if you spend time taking it over and over, your brain begins to recognize patterns in the questions, you begin to notice recurring questions, and it starts to get easier to figure out answers. Think of it like playing guitar. When you first pick it up its all frets and strings and organizational chaos. But slowly, it all starts fitting together in specific patterns that you start to understand without even thinking about it. Same with SAT tests. And if you're paying me big money to be an expert at taking SAT tests, I'm going to practice at least as much as I practice my Dorian scales.
What's a Dorian scale? Sorry. Bad habit of mine. Dorian MODE.(Boy....tough room!)
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Post by Walter on Mar 16, 2019 17:11:28 GMT -5
Meanwhile, the scheme was amazingly simple, at least in the case of USC, which seems to be the origin of the plot. This from Lynn Swann:
“The reason why no one would know that this was happening is because we had one person in charge of submitting the academic records to our admissions department,” Swann said. “And that one person was in charge of getting that information back and distributing it to the coaches and letting other people know. So when there’s trust that this one person is doing the right thing, which Donna had been doing for years, there’s not a problem. … So a coach could give her a list of five names and she could add a sixth name, give it to admissions, have it go through, admissions gives it back to her, she gives it back to the coach with only the five names that the coach gave her. The coach doesn’t know, no one knows, except for the person who added the extra name.”
Have a pro take the exam, pay off the "Donna" at a school, and your kid is in.
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Post by Buckeye Dale on Mar 16, 2019 18:52:42 GMT -5
As was said elsewhere...the amount of resources used here by DOJ/FBI/IRS is astounding, IMHO... Like, someone is going to be killed because Mrs Richbich paid off an insider to get her dumb kid in college...REALLY??
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Post by canefan on Mar 16, 2019 19:08:03 GMT -5
As was said elsewhere...the amount of resources used here by DOJ/FBI/IRS is astounding, IMHO... Like, someone is going to be killed because Mrs Richbich paid off an insider to get her dumb kid in college...REALLY?? Crossed my mind too. Reminds me of the Congress having all the baseball steroid hearings years ago. I always figured they should have more important stuff to investigate.
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Post by canefan on Mar 16, 2019 19:10:22 GMT -5
Money would be a good motivator, but frankly, I can't imagine taking that damn thing over and over. I never took the SAT. I took the ACT and lucked into a high score my first time so I avoided any other testing like the plague. <g> SATs are a funny but enlightening aspect of this whole scandal. They have certainly changed over the past 50 - odd years since I took them. I would agree with Walt that the structure of the test remained remarkably the same, at least over the three year period that I took it, from fall of 1964 thru fall of 1966. Of course, I also took the PSATs (Preliminary SATs) each year to try and get a running start; but as for this whole bullshit about paying to take courses in how to score bigtime on the SAT - those did not exist back in the mid-sixties as far as I know. Certainly not where I was in high school. Back in the day I myself always tested pretty well on stuff like this, which is not at all the same thing as an actual intelligence or aptitude test. But nonetheless, for whatever reason, that is how they were perceived at the county high school which I attended in rural Georgia. Bragging rights as much as anything.
I started off at a score of 1228 if I remember correctly, and crept up to a score of 1339 out of 1600 two years later. Pretty decent but doesn't look that great when compared to today's SATs with a maximum score of 2400, I believe. The main thing I remember is that I started out with a split of around 600 on the math (which I hated) and 20 or 30 points higher on the verbal. However, two years later I was well north of 620 on the verbal but had scarcely moved the needle on the math. Then as now, many colleges allowed for extra consideration of other activities on the part of applicants who had maybe just passed the minimum requirements on the SATs or ACTs, which is only fair. Fabricating test results is awfully bad, but making up extra-curricular activities and memberships seems much worse for the institutions involved. If anything, I have to say that this whole sordid story only makes me prouder of my own admission and degree at UGA. Vindex Georgia BulldogsI took the PSAT, or as it was called then, the National Merit test. My problem was I was very good in math and science, english, not so much. Actually scored in the top percentile in math on the Merit test. If I could have pulled a just a bit above average on the verbal portion I'd have kicked ass.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2019 22:27:22 GMT -5
Sorry. Bad habit of mine. Dorian MODE.(Boy....tough room!) I don't know what a Dorian mode is, either. Seriously.
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Post by bamorin on Mar 17, 2019 8:45:11 GMT -5
Sorry. Bad habit of mine. Dorian MODE.(Boy....tough room!) I don't know what a Dorian mode is, either. Seriously.
The Dorian scale, or mode, is the second of the seven musical modes. It is similar to the natural minor except for the raised sixth. The Dorian scale is the minor scale that appears when a major scale is started from the second note (second scale-degree). Thus, a C major scale played from "D" is a D Dorian scale.
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Post by Walter on Mar 17, 2019 10:40:26 GMT -5
I don't know what a Dorian mode is, either. Seriously.
The Dorian scale, or mode, is the second of the seven musical modes. It is similar to the natural minor except for the raised sixth. The Dorian scale is the minor scale that appears when a major scale is started from the second note (second scale-degree). Thus, a C major scale played from "D" is a D Dorian scale. In reality, it is just another way of describing what you might be doing. Using BaM's example, if I played an arpeggio of the 2 chord in C, I might use C major as my reference and claim Dm is the 2nd, 4th and 6th degrees of C. But that really does not describe the chord as well as referring to it using the Dorian mode, which would yield the 1, b3 and 5th. If I add the extension, I call it the b7 rather than the 1. The 6 chord scale, The Aeolian mode, would be named off as 1, 2, b3, 4, 5, b6 b7. Whenever I play what the modes describe as a b3, I know I am playing one of the minor chords in the key. I am guessing you know all this but did not know it had a name.
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Post by Buckeye Dale on Mar 17, 2019 12:55:12 GMT -5
I don't know what a Dorian mode is, either. Seriously.
The Dorian scale, or mode, is the second of the seven musical modes. It is similar to the natural minor except for the raised sixth. The Dorian scale is the minor scale that appears when a major scale is started from the second note (second scale-degree). Thus, a C major scale played from "D" is a D Dorian scale. DANG!! Really tough admissions standards...especially for the hard of hearing. No WONDER those people cheated.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2019 15:42:31 GMT -5
I don't know what a Dorian mode is, either. Seriously.
The Dorian scale, or mode, is the second of the seven musical modes. It is similar to the natural minor except for the raised sixth. The Dorian scale is the minor scale that appears when a major scale is started from the second note (second scale-degree). Thus, a C major scale played from "D" is a D Dorian scale. Exactly.
The modes are a whole lot of humbug, totally unnecessary if you have knowledge of the fret board and a good ear.
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Post by beuycek on Mar 19, 2019 10:03:40 GMT -5
As was said elsewhere...the amount of resources used here by DOJ/FBI/IRS is astounding, IMHO... Like, someone is going to be killed because Mrs Richbich paid off an insider to get her dumb kid in college...REALLY?? Crossed my mind too. Reminds me of the Congress having all the baseball steroid hearings years ago. I always figured they should have more important stuff to investigate. When they were hauling baseball players to Washington to testify, it struck me as odd, too. I just assumed it was because steroids were illegal and baseball was catering to young kids but it still never made a lot of sense until someone mentioned it having more to do with the antitrust exemption MLB has. Then it all made sense... follow the money.
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Post by AlaCowboy on Mar 19, 2019 17:27:38 GMT -5
Crossed my mind too. Reminds me of the Congress having all the baseball steroid hearings years ago. I always figured they should have more important stuff to investigate. When they were hauling baseball players to Washington to testify, it struck me as odd, too. I just assumed it was because steroids were illegal and baseball was catering to young kids but it still never made a lot of sense until someone mentioned it having more to do with the antitrust exemption MLB has. Then it all made sense... follow the money. Could have been all the politicians posing for pictures with the athletes and getting autographs from them.
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Post by Walter on Mar 19, 2019 22:29:59 GMT -5
Crossed my mind too. Reminds me of the Congress having all the baseball steroid hearings years ago. I always figured they should have more important stuff to investigate. When they were hauling baseball players to Washington to testify, it struck me as odd, too. I just assumed it was because steroids were illegal and baseball was catering to young kids but it still never made a lot of sense until someone mentioned it having more to do with the antitrust exemption MLB has. Then it all made sense... follow the money. I disagree. If you are a rep. of the people and the fabric of American society is deing compromised and cheating is sought to be normalized in the "national pastime", do you stand silent? IMO, the money was the leverage, not the aim. There was a bigger Q in play than money, and society's reps weighed in. I see no downside to that.
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