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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 16:47:58 GMT -5
The obvious answer to me would be no, but I'm sure you have something up your sleeve. And what does pushing something across a flat (and I am assuming, level) surface have to do with recoil? a friction co-efficient of 1 means it's not moving. ie static friction........PSI stands for pressure per square inch. if we round off "pressure" to pounds, and then look at actual sq in of surface area we can see the actual load on the actual area. The sq in area of the inside base of a .45ACP is .64 square inches. The case wall (excluding the base) has 1.14 sq in area. At peak pressure of 21,000 psi. the base has a load of 13,440 pounds applied to it. the case wall has 23,940 pounds applied to it. in order for for the brass to move in the linear sense, the load applied to the walls must go below the load applied to the base. What pushes the bolt face back in the 45ACP is the case. in order for the case to move, the load on the case wall has to drop below the load on the case base. The load on the case wall drops when the pressure in the system drops.......ie, when the bullet exits the barrel. The brass wall returns to its "normal" size providing zero friction, the residual linear gas pressure pushing on the case base then starts the reward action of the bolt and slide. If that doesn't happen (case basically welded to the chamber) the backwards force of the case would be equal the the forward force on the bullet, which at barrel exit equates to 390 ft pounds of energy . And that my friend would be some serious recoil.
Want to settle it once and for all? Take the extractor out of your 1911 (a very easy job) and shoot it. Where will you find the empty case? Still in the chamber.
Why? Because nothing blows it out of the chamber. It has to be pulled out by the EXTRACTOR.
CAUTION: Hold the gun perpendicular to your face when you fire it. If you don't, combustion gases coming back through the extractor tunnel will eat you up.
Come back after you've done this and tell me I am wrong. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 16:55:05 GMT -5
[/b][/i][/font] [/quote] what the f-word does a lower pressure/higher pressure of bernoulli have to do with this. wing lift? really? simple math question for you. can you force something that weighs 23,940 pounds, with a friction coefficient of 1 by exerting 13,440 pounds of force against it.? [/quote] I have no idea what y'all are arguing about. But I do have a question regarding recoil ... if you were to fire a rifle upside down, does it still recoil upward? [/quote] The relative location of the axis of the barrel to the location where the gun is gripped determines that, so no. That's a function of the horizontal axis of the gun, not recoil. Because the recoil force is ABOVE that axis when properly held, it causes the barrel to rise on the axis which is UNDER it. Hold it sideways and the barrel will still rise "up" because the recoil force is now on one side of what has become the VERTICAL axis.
Elementary, Watson!
(And you thought I was dumb Southern boy)
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Post by burninbush on Jan 18, 2017 17:52:10 GMT -5
[/b][/i][/font] [/quote] what the f-word does a lower pressure/higher pressure of bernoulli have to do with this. wing lift? really? simple math question for you. can you force something that weighs 23,940 pounds, with a friction coefficient of 1 by exerting 13,440 pounds of force against it.? [/quote] I have no idea what y'all are arguing about. But I do have a question regarding recoil ... if you were to fire a rifle upside down, does it still recoil upward? [/quote] The relative location of the axis of the barrel to the location where the gun is gripped determines that, so no.[/quote] Okay. So why is there all the conversation about recoil in this thread? It has zippo to do with whatever this thread is about. Why all the conversation about open/closed? Has zippo. Why all the conversation about pressure? We all know how guns work. So what is the thread about? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 18:43:48 GMT -5
[/b][/i][/font] [/quote] what the f-word does a lower pressure/higher pressure of bernoulli have to do with this. wing lift? really? simple math question for you. can you force something that weighs 23,940 pounds, with a friction coefficient of 1 by exerting 13,440 pounds of force against it.? I have no idea what y'all are arguing about. But I do have a question regarding recoil ... if you were to fire a rifle upside down, does it still recoil upward? The relative location of the axis of the barrel to the location where the gun is gripped determines that, so no. Okay. So why is there all the conversation about recoil in this thread? It has zippo to do with whatever this thread is about. Why all the conversation about open/closed? Has zippo. Why all the conversation about pressure? We all know how guns work. So what is the thread about? I suggest you read the title of the thread. If you have any expertise on this, please weigh in. The more the merrier!
The political threads have gotten totally f-ing ridiculous. |
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Post by bamorin on Jan 18, 2017 18:49:49 GMT -5
Want to settle it once and for all? Take the extractor out of your 1911 (a very easy job) and shoot it. Where will you find the empty case? Still in the chamber. [/b][/i][/font] [/quote] did that in 1969 with my Remington 1100 12ga trap gun. trap shooters don't like being pelted with empties down the line. case always ended up laying in the receiver. roll the gun right, empty falls into my hand to be put into the empty case bag to be reloaded at a later date. doesn't matter how smooth the chamber in my 1911 is. 21,000 PSI has it pushed up solid to the chamber wall. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 19:01:54 GMT -5
Want to settle it once and for all? Take the extractor out of your 1911 (a very easy job) and shoot it. Where will you find the empty case? Still in the chamber. did that in 1969 with my Remington 1100 12ga trap gun. trap shooters don't like being pelted with empties down the line. case always ended up laying in the receiver. roll the gun right, empty falls into my hand to be put into the empty case bag to be reloaded at a later date. doesn't matter how smooth the chamber in my 1911 is. 21,000 PSI has it pushed up solid to the chamber wall. So what happens if you shoot +P's? Does your gun blow up? 21k is the SAAMI average, it's far from max.
And that's where it will STAY unless an extractor yanks it out. Chamber pressure is not going to move it because it is already jammed against the breechface. You must think there is some gap between the case head and the breechface. There is NONE in a semiauto, if the chamber has been properly headspaced.
You know I owe you since you did me a favor, but at least this is more fun than dealing with the loony libs all the time.
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Post by bamorin on Jan 18, 2017 19:53:00 GMT -5
did that in 1969 with my Remington 1100 12ga trap gun. trap shooters don't like being pelted with empties down the line. case always ended up laying in the receiver. roll the gun right, empty falls into my hand to be put into the empty case bag to be reloaded at a later date. doesn't matter how smooth the chamber in my 1911 is. 21,000 PSI has it pushed up solid to the chamber wall. So what happens if you shoot +P's? the chamber pressure is a little higher, bullet velocity a little higher, yet the case doesn't move until the pressure on the case wall to chamber becomes less than the linear pressure on the back of the case. Don't know what kind of POS 1911 you have, but my extractor is mounted to my bolt face. It doesn't do squat on its own. It has to move with the bolt. the case pushes the bolt back, when it gets a certain distance back a small protruding piece on the opposite side from the opening contacts the rear of the case, tilts the case towards the opening forcing the extractor to move outward, flinging the case out of the way. Bolt is part of my slide, bolt/slide doesn't move unless the case pushes it. Again, it doesn't get pushed in the linear, until the axial pressure on the case gets lower. And that happens when the bullet exits the barrel. The video of the gun in your example shows how big a piece of shit it is. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 20:17:36 GMT -5
did that in 1969 with my Remington 1100 12ga trap gun. trap shooters don't like being pelted with empties down the line. case always ended up laying in the receiver. roll the gun right, empty falls into my hand to be put into the empty case bag to be reloaded at a later date. doesn't matter how smooth the chamber in my 1911 is. 21,000 PSI has it pushed up solid to the chamber wall. So what happens if you shoot +P's? the chamber pressure is a little higher, bullet velocity a little higher, yet the case doesn't move until the pressure on the case wall to chamber becomes less than the linear pressure on the back of the case. Don't know what kind of POS 1911 you have, but my extractor is mounted to my bolt face. It doesn't do squat on its own. It has to move with the bolt. the case pushes the bolt back, when it gets a certain distance back a small protruding piece on the opposite side from the opening contacts the rear of the case, tilts the case towards the opening forcing the extractor to move outward, flinging the case out of the way. Bolt is part of my slide, bolt/slide doesn't move unless the case pushes it. Again, it doesn't get pushed in the linear, until the axial pressure on the case gets lower. And that happens when the bullet exits the barrel. The video of the gun in your example shows how big a piece of shit it is.
Please -- PLEASE -- don't tell me anything about a 1911. I've been shooting and disassembling them for like forever. Over 50 years by now.
I don't even know what kind of gun is in that video. It doesn't matter. All recoil operated semiautos function the same way --- with the breech and chamber mechanically linked.
Now you could argue that the slide takes longer to move its full travel because of its heavier mass AND the resistance of the recoil spring, and I'd agree with you. That's the whole purpose of a heavy slide and breechblock. BUT ...... recoil begins at the instant of ignition, and there is no getting around that.
MY 1911 is pure 1911A-1, nothing added, nothing removed.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2017 0:48:53 GMT -5
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