Water boarding

[cbisbig]

Hope the board will excuse my ignorance as I don't claim to know much about politics, but President Trump says he's in favor of this torture practice to gather info from captured isis thugs or any other terrorists.
What is water boarding?

[Walter]

Jan 25, 2017 18:44:20 GMT -5 cbisbig said:

Hope the board will excuse my ignorance as I don't claim to know much about politics, but President Trump says he's in favor of this torture practice to gather info from captured isis thugs or any other terrorists.
What is water boarding?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding

[Deleted]

Jan 25, 2017 18:44:20 GMT -5 cbisbig said:

Hope the board will excuse my ignorance as I don't claim to know much about politics, but President Trump says he's in favor of this torture practice to gather info from captured isis thugs or any other terrorists.
What is water boarding?

Basically, it's a harmless form of "torture" in which a person's head is covered with cloth, and water is poured over his head to make him fear he will drown or suffocate.  It has been used successfully to gather information from terrorists.  It causes no permanent harm and is much more humane than beheading.

[Walter]

Jan 25, 2017 18:57:17 GMT -5 @muttmk2 said:

Jan 25, 2017 18:44:20 GMT -5 cbisbig said:

Hope the board will excuse my ignorance as I don't claim to know much about politics, but President Trump says he's in favor of this torture practice to gather info from captured isis thugs or any other terrorists.
What is water boarding?

Basically, it's a harmless form of "torture" in which a person's head is covered with cloth, and water is poured over his head to make him fear he will drown or suffocate.  It has been used successfully to gather information from terrorists.  It causes no permanent harm and is much more humane than beheading.

...which is why Japanese personnel who engaged in and ordered the practice against Allied POWs were tried and executed for war crimes by the United States after WW2....because it's basically harmless.

[Deleted]

Jan 25, 2017 19:08:52 GMT -5 Walter said:

Jan 25, 2017 18:57:17 GMT -5 @muttmk2 said:

Basically, it's a harmless form of "torture" in which a person's head is covered with cloth, and water is poured over his head to make him fear he will drown or suffocate.  It has been used successfully to gather information from terrorists.  It causes no permanent harm and is much more humane than beheading.

...which is why Japanese personnel who engaged in and ordered the practice against Allied POWs were tried and executed for war crimes by the United States after WW2....because it's basically harmless.

You are FOS.
Why don't you look up the Bataan Death March and other REAL Japanese atrocities committed by them?

AND .......... you are WRONG.
"Scott qualified his statement to make clear he was referring to executed Japanese military members who faced a variety of war crime charges, including waterboarding, not that they were sentenced to death solely for that offense."

www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2015/jan/12/bobby-scott/bobby-scott-after-wwii-us-executed-japanese-war-cr/

[Buckeye Dale]

Jan 25, 2017 19:08:52 GMT -5 Walter said:

Jan 25, 2017 18:57:17 GMT -5 @muttmk2 said:

Basically, it's a harmless form of "torture" in which a person's head is covered with cloth, and water is poured over his head to make him fear he will drown or suffocate.  It has been used successfully to gather information from terrorists.  It causes no permanent harm and is much more humane than beheading.

...which is why Japanese personnel who engaged in and ordered the practice against Allied POWs were tried and executed for war crimes by the United States after WW2....because it's basically harmless.

Depends on the degree, as in many other things.  US Army soldiers are subjected to water boarding in several courses that contain Survival, Escape, Evade, Resist (SEER) Training.  This includes the Special Ops "Q" course (along with several other phases of that training.  "Q" course is just the Qualification Course), RANGER School, SAPPER Leader Course, and several other special qualification courses.  It isn't PLEASANT, but it's better than being hung by your wrists with just your tip-toes on the ground.

[cbisbig]

Jan 25, 2017 18:57:17 GMT -5 @muttmk2 said:

Jan 25, 2017 18:44:20 GMT -5 cbisbig said:

Hope the board will excuse my ignorance as I don't claim to know much about politics, but President Trump says he's in favor of this torture practice to gather info from captured isis thugs or any other terrorists.
What is water boarding?

Basically, it's a harmless form of "torture" in which a person's head is covered with cloth, and water is poured over his head to make him fear he will drown or suffocate.  It has been used successfully to gather information from terrorists.  It causes no permanent harm and is much more humane than beheading.

I was thinking the same thing not that terrorists deserve humane treatment

[daleko]

Jan 25, 2017 19:08:52 GMT -5 Walter said:

Jan 25, 2017 18:57:17 GMT -5 @muttmk2 said:

Basically, it's a harmless form of "torture" in which a person's head is covered with cloth, and water is poured over his head to make him fear he will drown or suffocate.  It has been used successfully to gather information from terrorists.  It causes no permanent harm and is much more humane than beheading.

...which is why Japanese personnel who engaged in and ordered the practice against Allied POWs were tried and executed for war crimes by the United States after WW2....because it's basically harmless.

If you really think this was the motivator alone that provided the reason for execution, I believe you are a bit misguided.

[Walter]

Jan 25, 2017 19:20:54 GMT -5 @muttmk2 said:

Jan 25, 2017 19:08:52 GMT -5 Walter said:

...which is why Japanese personnel who engaged in and ordered the practice against Allied POWs were tried and executed for war crimes by the United States after WW2....because it's basically harmless.

You are FOS.
Why don't you look up the Bataan Death March and other REAL Japanese atrocities committed by them?

AND .......... you are WRONG.
"Scott qualified his statement to make clear he was referring to executed Japanese military members who faced a variety of war crime charges, including waterboarding, not that they were sentenced to death solely for that offense."

www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2015/jan/12/bobby-scott/bobby-scott-after-wwii-us-executed-japanese-war-cr/

Take it up with the only member of Congress who actually WAS tortured, not me.

"The President can sign whatever executive orders he likes. But the law is the law. We are not bringing back torture in the United States of America," the Arizona senator John McCain said in a statement.

...and take it up with the nominee for head of the CIA.

When asked if he would restart the CIA's use of enhanced interrogation tactics that fall outside of the army field manual if ordered by Trump, Pompeo responded, "Absolutely not. Moreover, I can't imagine I would be asked that by the President-elect."

Waterboarding is torture.
America doesn't believe in torturing prisoners....well....most Americans, anyway.

[Walter]

Jan 25, 2017 19:59:50 GMT -5 daleko said:

Jan 25, 2017 19:08:52 GMT -5 Walter said:

...which is why Japanese personnel who engaged in and ordered the practice against Allied POWs were tried and executed for war crimes by the United States after WW2....because it's basically harmless.

If you really think this was the motivator alone that provided the reason for execution, I believe you are a bit misguided.

If you think it wasn't at least a part of the charges made, then you are misguided.

[Deleted]

Jan 25, 2017 20:05:23 GMT -5 Walter said:

Jan 25, 2017 19:20:54 GMT -5 @muttmk2 said:

You are FOS.
Why don't you look up the Bataan Death March and other REAL Japanese atrocities committed by them?

AND .......... you are WRONG.
"Scott qualified his statement to make clear he was referring to executed Japanese military members who faced a variety of war crime charges, including waterboarding, not that they were sentenced to death solely for that offense."

www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2015/jan/12/bobby-scott/bobby-scott-after-wwii-us-executed-japanese-war-cr/

Take it up with the only member of Congress who actually WAS tortured, not me.

"The President can sign whatever executive orders he likes. But the law is the law. We are not bringing back torture in the United States of America," the Arizona senator John McCain said in a statement.

...and take it up with the nominee for head of the CIA.

When asked if he would restart the CIA's use of enhanced interrogation tactics that fall outside of the army field manual if ordered by Trump, Pompeo responded, "Absolutely not. Moreover, I can't imagine I would be asked that by the President-elect."

Waterboarding is torture.
America doesn't believe in torturing prisoners....well....most Americans, anyway.

No, I am taking it up with YOU.   You are the one giving false information to a guy who admitted he doesn't know much about such things.  You are the one who said Japanese were executed for waterboarding.    That is FALSE, and you knew it when you wrote it.

And let's get one thing perfectly clear ........... if harmlessly waterboarding 100 terrorists saves ONE American from being murdered by those dogs, it is ABSOLUTELY worth it.



Your wife has been kidnapped by terrorists, one of whom was caught.  The authorities have video of her, beaten and bloody, with the warning that she has 12 hours to live.  You know they are serious since you have seen what they have already done.  Do YOU want the terrorist waterboarded, hoping he will give up her location?

[daleko]

Jan 25, 2017 20:07:55 GMT -5 Walter said:

Jan 25, 2017 19:59:50 GMT -5 daleko said:

If you really think this was the motivator alone that provided the reason for execution, I believe you are a bit misguided.

If you think it wasn't at least a part of the charges made, then you are misguided.

FTWIW, John McCain agrees w you w/o any definition that it was for waterboarding alone. I don't believe execution for waterboarding alone ever occurred. In the cases I reviewed it was a stack on charge, not much different than a prosecutor might do today. But if I'm the one misguided, so be it. My bad. I guess I could review The Tokyo War Crimes Trial: The Complete Transcripts of the Proceedings of the International Military Tribunal for the Far East, but my copy seems have been misplaced.

[Deleted]

Jan 25, 2017 20:07:55 GMT -5 Walter said:

Jan 25, 2017 19:59:50 GMT -5 daleko said:

If you really think this was the motivator alone that provided the reason for execution, I believe you are a bit misguided.

If you think it wasn't at least a part of the charges made, then you are misguided.

So if I murder someone, run from the cops in my car, and get charged with felony flight from an officer along with everything else, you are going to claim I was given the death penalty for running from the cops. That is ABSURD, and you know it.

[Walter]

Jan 25, 2017 20:25:53 GMT -5 daleko said:

Jan 25, 2017 20:07:55 GMT -5 Walter said:

If you think it wasn't at least a part of the charges made, then you are misguided.

FTWIW, John McCain agrees w you w/o any definition that it was for waterboarding alone. I don't believe execution for waterboarding alone ever occurred. In the cases I reviewed it was a stack on charge, not much different than a prosecutor might do today. But if I'm the one misguided, so be it. My bad. I guess I could review The Tokyo War Crimes Trial: The Complete Transcripts of the Proceedings of the International Military Tribunal for the Far East, but my copy seems have been misplaced.

McCain brought it up 8 years ago, and brought it up again yesterday. I'll defer to his judgment on the matter. If you want to split hairs about whether it was an "add-on charge" or not, that's your prerogative.
Meanwhile, Mattis is against it, as is Pompeo. Waterboarding is, in part, what fucked up the ability of the Gitmo detainees to face a regular court trial. It's just a dumb idea. Oh, and BTW....it's torture.

[Walter]

Jan 25, 2017 20:37:27 GMT -5 @muttmk2 said:

Jan 25, 2017 20:07:55 GMT -5 Walter said:

If you think it wasn't at least a part of the charges made, then you are misguided.

So if I murder someone, run from the cops in my car, and get charged with felony flight from an officer along with everything else, you are going to claim I was given the death penalty for running from the cops. That is ABSURD, and you know it.

Is torture of a prisoner against the law?
Yes or No?
If you waterboarded a prisoner at the Port Allen police department interrogation room after arresting him for that murder, would the evidence obtained from that act be admissible in court?
Yes or no?