Water boarding

[Walter]

Jan 26, 2017 12:41:42 GMT -5 cbisbig said:

Jan 26, 2017 12:07:32 GMT -5 Walter said:

So, it is your intent to equate the laws of the United States of America with a guy in a pickup truck full of explosives?
Really?

Actually it's the other way around, my entire point revolves around this type of torture directed towards radical islamists seeking to kill Americans just because their religion says they will be blessed in the eyes of their God for it. Believe they call it jehad or something

I get what you're trying to say, but the sentiment has to be weighed against sanctity of the law. There are all sorts of situations where lethal force is acceptable to a society, but would you not agree that, to the best of our abilities as a society, we should seek to minimize the necessity for extra-judicial action? Vengeance is not a significant justification for violating the law.

[Deleted]

Jan 26, 2017 13:03:11 GMT -5 Walter said:

Jan 26, 2017 12:41:42 GMT -5 cbisbig said:

Actually it's the other way around, my entire point revolves around this type of torture directed towards radical islamists seeking to kill Americans just because their religion says they will be blessed in the eyes of their God for it. Believe they call it jehad or something

I get what you're trying to say, but the sentiment has to be weighed against sanctity of the law. There are all sorts of situations where lethal force is acceptable to a society, but would you not agree that, to the best of our abilities as a society, we should seek to minimize the necessity for extra-judicial action? Vengeance is not a significant justification for violating the law.

I wasn't talking about vengeance in the question I posed to you, Walt.
I asked if you would waterboard a suspect who knows where your kidnapped wife is.  She is still alive momentarily, but the suspect's buddies have vowed to kill her in 12 hours.
How far would you go to save your wife's life?

Waterboard him and save her, or plead "pretty please" and let her die?

[cbisbig]

Jan 26, 2017 12:47:30 GMT -5 trnyerheadncough said:

Jan 26, 2017 12:37:49 GMT -5 cbisbig said:

That's not what I'm saying at all, I'm just not sympathetic to people who's mission in life is to kill innocent people just because they are American.

I'm not sympathetic to them either. I am, however, adamant that we remain true to the tenets of what we believe, and true to our word in the agreements and treaties we sign. I don't give a shit that Habib doesn't follow the Geneva Convention. I give a major shit that the United States does.

I understand where you're coming from. Imo though it's essentially the same deal when a cop killer is running from the law, he usually ends up dead because the pursuing officers killed him because he wouldn't be taken alive, same as the towel heads, you think Osama bin laden thru his hands up and tried to surrender? Even if he did, I'm sure Seal Team 6 had the green light to eliminate him. I doubt anyone was thinking about the Geneva Convention or any other treaty, that went out the window when they blew up the WTC in NY.

[trnyerheadncough]

Jan 26, 2017 14:51:26 GMT -5 cbisbig said:

Jan 26, 2017 12:47:30 GMT -5 trnyerheadncough said:

I'm not sympathetic to them either. I am, however, adamant that we remain true to the tenets of what we believe, and true to our word in the agreements and treaties we sign. I don't give a shit that Habib doesn't follow the Geneva Convention. I give a major shit that the United States does.

I understand where you're coming from. Imo though it's essentially the same deal when a cop killer is running from the law, he usually ends up dead because the pursuing officers killed him because he wouldn't be taken alive, same as the towel heads, you think Osama bin laden thru his hands up and tried to surrender? Even if he did, I'm sure Seal Team 6 had the green light to eliminate him. I doubt anyone was thinking about the Geneva Convention or any other treaty, that went out the window when they blew up the WTC in NY.

Maybe, but those are individuals making individual decisions. Police aren't allowed to murder cop killers either, even though I'm sure it happens.

That's a far cry from departing from U.S. governmental policy and the treaties we've signed.

[Walter]

Jan 26, 2017 14:41:08 GMT -5 @muttmk2 said:

Jan 26, 2017 13:03:11 GMT -5 Walter said:

I get what you're trying to say, but the sentiment has to be weighed against sanctity of the law. There are all sorts of situations where lethal force is acceptable to a society, but would you not agree that, to the best of our abilities as a society, we should seek to minimize the necessity for extra-judicial action? Vengeance is not a significant justification for violating the law.

I wasn't talking about vengeance in the question I posed to you, Walt.
I asked if you would waterboard a suspect who knows where your kidnapped wife is.  She is still alive momentarily, but the suspect's buddies have vowed to kill her in 12 hours.
How far would you go to save your wife's life?

Waterboard him and save her, or plead "pretty please" and let her die?

Why is waterboarding my only option?
Let's expand on this hypothetical.

1) Waterboard the guy mercilessly until he gives up the info, or
2) Offer complete immunity from prosecution for the kidnapping if he talks. The guy can walk out the door a free man as soon as your wife is found safe, but will be summarily beheaded if she turns up dead.

Your wife's life hangs in the balance and you have only one choice.
Choose one.

[Deleted]

Jan 26, 2017 15:06:43 GMT -5 Walter said:

Jan 26, 2017 14:41:08 GMT -5 @muttmk2 said:

I wasn't talking about vengeance in the question I posed to you, Walt.
I asked if you would waterboard a suspect who knows where your kidnapped wife is.  She is still alive momentarily, but the suspect's buddies have vowed to kill her in 12 hours.
How far would you go to save your wife's life?

Waterboard him and save her, or plead "pretty please" and let her die?

Why is waterboarding my only option?
Let's expand on this hypothetical.

1) Waterboard the guy mercilessly until he gives up the info, or
2) Offer complete immunity from prosecution for the kidnapping if he talks. The guy can walk out the door a free man as soon as your wife is found safe, but will be summarily beheaded if she turns up dead.

Your wife's life hangs in the balance and you have only one choice.
Choose one.

Why is waterboarding your only option?   Try looking at the thread title. That's what we are talking about here.

I choose #1, of course.    Intervention will save my wife's life.  Or maybe it won't. I have to accept that.  You don't negotiate with terrorists.  He doesn't get to walk away and do it again, and probably NOT get caught the next time.

Actually, I would not waterboard the guy either.  After an hour of interrogation, if he had not talked, I would shoot him in the left ankle with a .22LR solid bullet.   IF that didn't work, next it would be his right ankle, then each knee, moving on to the hands and elbows, then each shoulder, THEN I would waterboard him if he still hadn't talked. 
I know what you are thinking ..........



But you are also thinking "f-word! I'm not gonna kidnap THAT guy's loved ones!"

[daleko]

Jan 26, 2017 15:06:43 GMT -5 Walter said:

Jan 26, 2017 14:41:08 GMT -5 @muttmk2 said:

I wasn't talking about vengeance in the question I posed to you, Walt.
I asked if you would waterboard a suspect who knows where your kidnapped wife is.  She is still alive momentarily, but the suspect's buddies have vowed to kill her in 12 hours.
How far would you go to save your wife's life?

Waterboard him and save her, or plead "pretty please" and let her die?

Why is waterboarding my only option?
Let's expand on this hypothetical.

1) Waterboard the guy mercilessly until he gives up the info, or
2) Offer complete immunity from prosecution for the kidnapping if he talks. The guy can walk out the door a free man as soon as your wife is found safe, but will be summarily beheaded if she turns up dead.

Your wife's life hangs in the balance and you have only one choice.
Choose one.

Easy answer to both Qs. Waterboard him and no one dies. And offer immunity given your options. But then he may do it again and some one dies later or option 2 (a) ... immunity then sanction him.

[daleko]

Jan 26, 2017 15:26:56 GMT -5 @muttmk2 said:

Jan 26, 2017 15:06:43 GMT -5 Walter said:

Why is waterboarding my only option?
Let's expand on this hypothetical.

1) Waterboard the guy mercilessly until he gives up the info, or
2) Offer complete immunity from prosecution for the kidnapping if he talks. The guy can walk out the door a free man as soon as your wife is found safe, but will be summarily beheaded if she turns up dead.

Your wife's life hangs in the balance and you have only one choice.
Choose one.

Why is waterboarding your only option?   Try looking at the thread title. That's what we are talking about here.

I choose #1, of course.    Intervention will save my wife's life.  Or maybe it won't. I have to accept that.  You don't negotiate with terrorists.  He doesn't get to walk away and do it again, and probably NOT get caught the next time.

Actually, I would not waterboard the guy either.  After an hour of interrogation, if he had not talked, I would shoot him in the left ankle with a .22LR solid bullet.   IF that didn't work, next it would be his right ankle, then each knee, moving on to the hands and elbows, then each shoulder, THEN I would waterboard him if he still hadn't talked. 
I know what you are thinking ..........



But you are also thinking "f-word! I'm not gonna kidnap THAT guy's loved ones!"

Electricity is the better option.

[cbisbig]

Jan 26, 2017 15:34:49 GMT -5 daleko said:

Jan 26, 2017 15:26:56 GMT -5 @muttmk2 said:

Why is waterboarding your only option?   Try looking at the thread title. That's what we are talking about here.

I choose #1, of course.    Intervention will save my wife's life.  Or maybe it won't. I have to accept that.  You don't negotiate with terrorists.  He doesn't get to walk away and do it again, and probably NOT get caught the next time.

Actually, I would not waterboard the guy either.  After an hour of interrogation, if he had not talked, I would shoot him in the left ankle with a .22LR solid bullet.   IF that didn't work, next it would be his right ankle, then each knee, moving on to the hands and elbows, then each shoulder, THEN I would waterboard him if he still hadn't talked. 
I know what you are thinking ..........



But you are also thinking "f-word! I'm not gonna kidnap THAT guy's loved ones!"

Electricity is the better option.

Is that against some sort of treaty like waterboarding?.

[Deleted]

Jan 26, 2017 15:34:49 GMT -5 daleko said:

Jan 26, 2017 15:26:56 GMT -5 @muttmk2 said:

Why is waterboarding your only option?   Try looking at the thread title. That's what we are talking about here.

I choose #1, of course.    Intervention will save my wife's life.  Or maybe it won't. I have to accept that.  You don't negotiate with terrorists.  He doesn't get to walk away and do it again, and probably NOT get caught the next time.

Actually, I would not waterboard the guy either.  After an hour of interrogation, if he had not talked, I would shoot him in the left ankle with a .22LR solid bullet.   IF that didn't work, next it would be his right ankle, then each knee, moving on to the hands and elbows, then each shoulder, THEN I would waterboard him if he still hadn't talked. 
I know what you are thinking ..........



But you are also thinking "f-word! I'm not gonna kidnap THAT guy's loved ones!"

Electricity is the better option.

"I love the smell of gunpowder in the morning ......"
                   

[daleko]

Jan 26, 2017 15:41:27 GMT -5 cbisbig said:

Jan 26, 2017 15:34:49 GMT -5 daleko said:

Electricity is the better option.

Is that against some sort of treaty like waterboarding?.

All forms are but, very effective.

[bamorin]

Jan 26, 2017 14:51:26 GMT -5 cbisbig said:

I'm sure Seal Team 6 had the green light to eliminate him. I doubt anyone was thinking about the Geneva Convention or any other treaty, that went out the window when they blew up the WTC in NY.

but but but.....those were orders given by a democrat president.

......"you don't need god anymore, you have us democrats"...nancy pelosi

[trnyerheadncough]

Jan 26, 2017 16:09:02 GMT -5 bamorin said:

Jan 26, 2017 14:51:26 GMT -5 cbisbig said:

I'm sure Seal Team 6 had the green light to eliminate him. I doubt anyone was thinking about the Geneva Convention or any other treaty, that went out the window when they blew up the WTC in NY.

but but but.....those were orders given by a democrat president.

......"you don't need god anymore, you have us democrats"...nancy pelosi

Bullshit. I don't give a damn the party of any president who knowingly violates the Geneva Conventions to tacitly agree to or encourage torture. Now, if you have proof that Obama gave orders to torture anyone, present it.

Even when the WTC went down, I specifically said that I didn't want the U.S. to abandon the shit we believe in because we were hellbent on revenge.

[bamorin]

Jan 26, 2017 17:17:00 GMT -5 trnyerheadncough said:

Jan 26, 2017 16:09:02 GMT -5 bamorin said:

but but but.....those were orders given by a democrat president.

......"you don't need god anymore, you have us democrats"...nancy pelosi

Bullshit. I don't give a damn the party of any president who knowingly violates the Geneva Conventions to tacitly agree to or encourage torture murder. Now, if you have proof that Obama gave orders to torture anyone murder, present it.

Really?? you never heard obama claim he took out osama?

[Deleted]

Jan 26, 2017 18:13:28 GMT -5 bamorin said:

Jan 26, 2017 17:17:00 GMT -5 trnyerheadncough said:

Bullshit. I don't give a damn the party of any president who knowingly violates the Geneva Conventions to tacitly agree to or encourage torture murder. Now, if you have proof that Obama gave orders to torture anyone murder, present it.

Really?? you never heard obama claim he took out osama?

Now you see why I have TuRNcoat blocked.   He is another clueless liberal worm.