Lebron=Team cancer

[cbisbig]

James is single handedly trying to destroy the Cavs simply because ownership won't go after the guys he wants on the team. Aren't they already about 20 mil over the cap? Lue is nothing more than a James puppet. Floating rumors that he wants to join the Warriors. This guy is an egotistical control freak and he's still nowhere as great as Jordon and never will be Imo.

[Mickey34jb]

Feb 4, 2018 9:48:21 GMT -5 cbisbig said:

James is single handedly trying to destroy the Cavs simply because ownership won't go after the guys he wants on the team. Aren't they already about 20 mil over the cap? Lue is nothing more than a James puppet. Floating rumors that he wants to join the Warriors. This guy is an egotistical control freak and he's still nowhere as great as Jordon and never will be Imo.

LeBron is still ticked that the Cavs didnt go after Paul George hard enough....cap space played a part in that....After his career is said and done with he may not be considered the greatest but he will certainly be in the conversation

[cbisbig]

Feb 4, 2018 11:18:10 GMT -5 Mickey34jb said:

Feb 4, 2018 9:48:21 GMT -5 cbisbig said:

James is single handedly trying to destroy the Cavs simply because ownership won't go after the guys he wants on the team. Aren't they already about 20 mil over the cap? Lue is nothing more than a James puppet. Floating rumors that he wants to join the Warriors. This guy is an egotistical control freak and he's still nowhere as great as Jordon and never will be Imo.

LeBron is still ticked that the Cavs didnt go after Paul George hard enough....cap space played a part in that....After his career is said and done with he may not be considered the greatest but he will certainly be in the conversation

I agree he will be in the top 10 all time greatests, but imo, he needs more rings to crack the top 5. a few other guys have a few more rings than him and could make a strong argument for top 5 consideration.

[Deleted]

We don't want him - he would just F up the chemistry of the team. He's always been the elephant in the room wherever he's played.

[cbisbig]

Feb 7, 2018 9:34:47 GMT -5 @kelliers said:

We don't want him - he would just F up the chemistry of the team. He's always been the elephant in the room wherever he's played.

And don't get me started on that jihady looking beard

[mscott59]

Feb 4, 2018 12:59:12 GMT -5 cbisbig said:

Feb 4, 2018 11:18:10 GMT -5 Mickey34jb said:

LeBron is still ticked that the Cavs didnt go after Paul George hard enough....cap space played a part in that....After his career is said and done with he may not be considered the greatest but he will certainly be in the conversation

I agree he will be in the top 10 all time greatests, but imo, he needs more rings to crack the top 5. a few other guys have a few more rings than him and could make a strong argument for top 5 consideration.

wow. the guy has led his team to 7 straight nba finals. kobe never did that, michael didn't either, nor isaiah, nor larry, or magic/jabbar (tho they came close; 9 out of 12 years). not dr j, not wilt. you have to go back to the bill russell celtics of the 50s-60s, and those teams had 4 of 5 hof guys. lebron has gotten to the finals w/much less talent surrounding him. you don't like him and that's your prerogative but what he's been able to do, especially in this day/age, is nothing short of historic. btw, the cavs are, already, paying $43 million in luxury tax for going over their cap. and for every $1 in salary added, gilbert pays an additional $4.25 in that tax. they couldn't afford to add another janitor, let alone paul george. or john or ringo.

[cbisbig]

Feb 7, 2018 10:09:59 GMT -5 mscott59 said:

Feb 4, 2018 12:59:12 GMT -5 cbisbig said:

I agree he will be in the top 10 all time greatests, but imo, he needs more rings to crack the top 5. a few other guys have a few more rings than him and could make a strong argument for top 5 consideration.

wow. the guy has led his team to 7 straight nba finals. kobe never did that, michael didn't either, nor isaiah, nor larry, or magic/jabbar (tho they came close; 9 out of 12 years). not dr j, not wilt. you have to go back to the bill russell celtics of the 50s-60s, and those teams had 4 of 5 hof guys. lebron has gotten to the finals w/much less talent surrounding him. you don't like him and that's your prerogative but what he's been able to do, especially in this day/age, is nothing short of historic. btw, the cavs are, already, paying $43 million in luxury tax for going over their cap. and for every $1 in salary added, gilbert pays an additional $4.25 in that tax. they couldn't afford to add another janitor, let alone paul george. or john or ringo.

What's his record in Championship games?

[mscott59]

Feb 7, 2018 12:01:58 GMT -5 cbisbig said:

Feb 7, 2018 10:09:59 GMT -5 mscott59 said:

wow. the guy has led his team to 7 straight nba finals. kobe never did that, michael didn't either, nor isaiah, nor larry, or magic/jabbar (tho they came close; 9 out of 12 years). not dr j, not wilt. you have to go back to the bill russell celtics of the 50s-60s, and those teams had 4 of 5 hof guys. lebron has gotten to the finals w/much less talent surrounding him. you don't like him and that's your prerogative but what he's been able to do, especially in this day/age, is nothing short of historic. btw, the cavs are, already, paying $43 million in luxury tax for going over their cap. and for every $1 in salary added, gilbert pays an additional $4.25 in that tax. they couldn't afford to add another janitor, let alone paul george. or john or ringo.

What's his record in Championship games?

obviously you already know this... 3-5. a best of 7 series means you're less likely to win title by luck or one play. golden state had the better roster the last 3 years... should have won all 3, but the cavs were able to get one of them. and yet that wasn't his greatest accomplishment... nor the 2 rings he won in miami amongst the 4 finals there. in '07, he took a cavs team that had no business even making the eastern conference finals to the nba finals. his teammates? 'stars' such as larry hughes, sasha pavlovic, boobie gibson, zydrunas ilgauskas, drew gooden, anderson varejao, donyell marshall, and a bunch of other marginal (by nba standards) talent. and lebron was the 5th highest salary on that team!!! he scored 27/night, at age 22. the next 3 highest scorers on the team averaged a total of 36/game. it was absolutely ridiculous how he was able to lead that team to the finals.

I'm not trying to discount jordan's greatness, but he made 6 finals (winning all 6) in a 15 year career. this is james' 15th season, and he's led his team to 8, with arguably less talented rosters than michael had. is jordan the greatest? or wilt? russell? the logo? oscar, magic, larry, kobe, jabbar or lebron? 10 diferent people might have 10 different answers to that one... but rings are not the only definition when it comes to individual greatness in a team sport. james has proven to be more versatile on offense and defense, at an elite level I'd argue, than any of those players.

[cbisbig]

Feb 7, 2018 13:34:19 GMT -5 mscott59 said:

Feb 7, 2018 12:01:58 GMT -5 cbisbig said:

What's his record in Championship games?

james has proven to be more versatile on offense and defense, at an elite level I'd argue, than any of those players.

Except for Jordon who has 5 league MVP awards to Lbjs 4
Jordon has 2 Defensive poy and 9 First team all defense
James has 0 def poy and 4 first team defense
Jordon has 10 scoring titles
James has 1
Jordon is 6-0 in the finals
James is 3-5
Jordon is a 6 time Finals Mvp
James has 3

they bot have 14 all star game appearances

[mscott59]

Feb 7, 2018 14:43:08 GMT -5 cbisbig said:

Feb 7, 2018 13:34:19 GMT -5 mscott59 said:

james has proven to be more versatile on offense and defense, at an elite level I'd argue, than any of those players.

Except for Jordon who has 5 league MVP awards to Lbjs 4
Jordon has 2 Defensive poy and 9 First team all defense
James has 0 def poy and 4 first team defense
Jordon has 10 scoring titles
James has 1
Jordon is 6-0 in the finals
James is 3-5
Jordon is a 6 time Finals Mvp
James has 3

they bot have 14 all star game appearances

you do understand what I mean by versatile right? james can play any position on the floor, very well, on offense and defending. jordan was not as versatile. plus when it comes to finals mvp? last year won, averaging 35/game. james scored 33/game. in '15, andre iguodala won it averaging 16/game. lebron scored 36/game. 20 point/game more... in '14, kawhi leonard won the finals mvp, averaging 18/game. in that series, james averaged 28+/game. so pardon me if listing finals mvp awards doesn't exactly mean that much.

in his career, jordan. averaged 30 ppg, 6 rebounds/game and 5 assists.
james: 27 pts, 7 boards and 7 assists. which are the better stats? frankly they're a wash, or if anything lebron has the slightest of edges.

[cbisbig]

Feb 7, 2018 14:59:09 GMT -5 mscott59 said:

Feb 7, 2018 14:43:08 GMT -5 cbisbig said:

Except for Jordon who has 5 league MVP awards to Lbjs 4
Jordon has 2 Defensive poy and 9 First team all defense
James has 0 def poy and 4 first team defense
Jordon has 10 scoring titles
James has 1
Jordon is 6-0 in the finals
James is 3-5
Jordon is a 6 time Finals Mvp
James has 3

they bot have 14 all star game appearances

you do understand what I mean by versatile right? james can play any position on the floor, very well, on offense and defending. jordan was not as versatile. plus when it comes to finals mvp? last year won, averaging 35/game. james scored 33/game. in '15, andre iguodala won it averaging 16/game. lebron scored 36/game. 20 point/game more... in '14, kawhi leonard won the finals mvp, averaging 18/game. in that series, james averaged 28+/game. so pardon me if listing finals mvp awards doesn't exactly mean that much.

Varsatile, you mean like leaving basketball for 2 years to play baseball, Jordon also played all positions except center that I recall. and the Finals mvp isn't always the guy who scores the most points, as was the case with KL. The finals MVP is the same as SB Mvp. The best player in the game for all the marbles. You're probably the only person I've ever seen have that opinion. SOunds a little like Homerism.

in his career, jordan. averaged 30 ppg, 6 rebounds/game and 5 assists.
james: 27 pts, 7 boards and 7 assists. which are the better stats? frankly they're a wash, or if anything lebron has the slightest of edges.

If the stats are a wash, then the deciding stats would logically be the ones I have listed, specifically the 6-0 in finals with TWO THREEPEATS!!.
There's really just no debate who the goat is. You being a Cavs fan, you probably grew to dislike Jordon and the bulls because they were always spanking that ass. I have no loyalty to Jordon, I just know he completely dominated the NBA and he didn't take games off to rest.

[oujour76]

Feb 7, 2018 15:51:00 GMT -5 cbisbig said:

If the stats are a wash, then the deciding stats would logically be the ones I have listed, specifically the 6-0 in finals with TWO THREEPEATS!!.
There's really just no debate who the goat is. You being a Cavs fan, you probably grew to dislike Jordon and the bulls because they were always spanking that ass. I have no loyalty to Jordon, I just know he completely dominated the NBA and he didn't take games off to rest.

[/font][/b]
[/quote]

Really do thing that GOAT is one of those arguments that is impossible to win in basketball. So many great, great players.

For my money, if I were a starting a team and had first pick in the draft, my choice would be Magic Johnson.

[cbisbig]

Feb 7, 2018 16:03:26 GMT -5 oujour76 said:

Feb 7, 2018 15:51:00 GMT -5 cbisbig said:

If the stats are a wash, then the deciding stats would logically be the ones I have listed, specifically the 6-0 in finals with TWO THREEPEATS!!.
There's really just no debate who the goat is. You being a Cavs fan, you probably grew to dislike Jordon and the bulls because they were always spanking that ass. I have no loyalty to Jordon, I just know he completely dominated the NBA and he didn't take games off to rest.

[/font][/b]
[/quote]

Really do thing that GOAT is one of those arguments that is impossible to win in basketball. So many great, great players.

For my money, if I were a starting a team and had first pick in the draft, my choice would be Magic Johnson. [/quote]

Johnson and Jordon were the ultimate team guys

[mscott59]

Feb 7, 2018 15:51:00 GMT -5 cbisbig said:

Feb 7, 2018 14:59:09 GMT -5 mscott59 said:

you do understand what I mean by versatile right? james can play any position on the floor, very well, on offense and defending. jordan was not as versatile. plus when it comes to finals mvp? last year won, averaging 35/game. james scored 33/game. in '15, andre iguodala won it averaging 16/game. lebron scored 36/game. 20 point/game more... in '14, kawhi leonard won the finals mvp, averaging 18/game. in that series, james averaged 28+/game. so pardon me if listing finals mvp awards doesn't exactly mean that much.

Varsatile, you mean like leaving basketball for 2 years to play baseball, Jordon also played all positions except center that I recall. and the Finals mvp isn't always the guy who scores the most points, as was the case with KL. The finals MVP is the same as SB Mvp. The best player in the game for all the marbles. You're probably the only person I've ever seen have that opinion. SOunds a little like Homerism.

in his career, jordan. averaged 30 ppg, 6 rebounds/game and 5 assists.
james: 27 pts, 7 boards and 7 assists. which are the better stats? frankly they're a wash, or if anything lebron has the slightest of edges.

If the stats are a wash, then the deciding stats would logically be the ones I have listed, specifically the 6-0 in finals with TWO THREEPEATS!!.
There's really just no debate who the goat is. You being a Cavs fan, you probably grew to dislike Jordon and the bulls because they were always spanking that ass. I have no loyalty to Jordon, I just know he completely dominated the NBA and he didn't take games off to rest.

so you have the capability to be completely objective, but I can't? lmao. that is what really, truly irritates me about some of the arguments here. you telling me the basis of my point... assuming I'm so shallow that if a player didn't play for my team, that I have no capability of judging him objectively. that shows your shallowness, not mine.

so if jordan didn't play center (btw he didn't play the 4 either), by definition that would make him less versatile, which was one of my points. and your mvp point/homerism? lmao again. james also average more rebounds/assists than leonard did, but he wasn't on the winning team. THAT is typically the major determining factor for a mvp. and as for your baseball reference? go look up what pro football scouts thought about james' potential as a te/wr. it sounded a lot more positive than batting .213 in double-a and not being able to hit a breaking ball... that said... I doubt many nba players could hit a breaking ball either, lebron included.

bottom line. james has led his teams to more finals than jordan, jordan's teams has won more finals than james. what? did I say that out loud? how is that possible, me being a blind homer? sigh.

[daleko]

Feb 7, 2018 16:03:26 GMT -5 oujour76 said:

Feb 7, 2018 15:51:00 GMT -5 cbisbig said:

If the stats are a wash, then the deciding stats would logically be the ones I have listed, specifically the 6-0 in finals with TWO THREEPEATS!!.
There's really just no debate who the goat is. You being a Cavs fan, you probably grew to dislike Jordon and the bulls because they were always spanking that ass. I have no loyalty to Jordon, I just know he completely dominated the NBA and he didn't take games off to rest.

[/font][/b]
[/quote]

Really do thing that GOAT is one of those arguments that is impossible to win in basketball. So many great, great players.

For my money, if I were a starting a team and had first pick in the draft, my choice would be Magic Johnson. [/quote]

Different era today. So many good players and the 3 ball an important component BUT if I had to pick one that fit in his era it'd be Kareem (LA) by Milw. Then you go get the Magic of his day, an older Oscar. Kareem was dominate in both an individual and team sense, as was MJ. Game is different today w the 3 spreading things out.