united methodist church at crossroads over sexuality

[Buckeye Dale]

Feb 26, 2019 16:15:31 GMT -5 AlaCowboy said:

Feb 26, 2019 10:19:09 GMT -5 mscott59 said:

been a horribly stressful time. final vote in st louis is today... I fear it will officially split the denomination.

Had a long discussion about this with my pastor and youth minister this morning while fishing for crappie. The pastor, about 60, is from the old school and is against gay marriage, but is agreeable with gays in the pulpit, but only if they are not actively practicing homosexuality. The youth minister, 23, open to gay marriage and agrees that gays in the pulpit should not be actively gay.
I said I thought within the church is fine, and a gay pastor should adhere to the words of Jesus in John 8:11. "Go, and sin no more." Taken literally, that is impossible because none are perfect and can stay without sin. But if you interpret that as to mean, "Go, and do not take up a life of willful sin again." then it is more easily understood.
Sinners should always be welcome into the Church, for it is the one place they can be shown the path to resisting sin, and be forgiven for past sins. I've never heard of a church solely for saints.
Married gays are (in my opinion) as married as any heterosexual married couple. I'm sure more traditional ministers will disagree, but they are human, so they just may not be right.

Full Question

I read that Christ did not say, "Love the sinner, hate the sin." Who did?


Answer

It’s from St. Augustine. His Letter 211 (c. 424) contains the phrase Cum dilectione hominum et odio vitiorum, which translates roughly to "With love for mankind and hatred of sins." The phrase has become more famous as "love the sinner but hate the sin" or "hate the sin and not the sinner" (the latter form appearing in Mohandas Gandhi’s 1929 autobiography).

[Walter]

Feb 26, 2019 16:15:31 GMT -5 AlaCowboy said:

Feb 26, 2019 10:19:09 GMT -5 mscott59 said:

been a horribly stressful time. final vote in st louis is today... I fear it will officially split the denomination.

Had a long discussion about this with my pastor and youth minister this morning while fishing for crappie. The pastor, about 60, is from the old school and is against gay marriage, but is agreeable with gays in the pulpit, but only if they are not actively practicing homosexuality. The youth minister, 23, open to gay marriage and agrees that gays in the pulpit should not be actively gay.
I said I thought within the church is fine, and a gay pastor should adhere to the words of Jesus in John 8:11. "Go, and sin no more." Taken literally, that is impossible because none are perfect and can stay without sin. But if you interpret that as to mean, "Go, and do not take up a life of willful sin again." then it is more easily understood.
Sinners should always be welcome into the Church, for it is the one place they can be shown the path to resisting sin, and be forgiven for past sins. I've never heard of a church solely for saints.
Married gays are (in my opinion) as married as any heterosexual married couple. I'm sure more traditional ministers will disagree, but they are human, so they just may not be right.

WTF is, "actively practicing homosexuality"?
That is like saying, "actively practicing womanhood" or, "actively practicing being black."
It fundamentally misunderstands the concept.

[AlaCowboy]

Feb 27, 2019 1:28:53 GMT -5 Walter said:

Feb 26, 2019 16:15:31 GMT -5 AlaCowboy said:

Had a long discussion about this with my pastor and youth minister this morning while fishing for crappie. The pastor, about 60, is from the old school and is against gay marriage, but is agreeable with gays in the pulpit, but only if they are not actively practicing homosexuality. The youth minister, 23, open to gay marriage and agrees that gays in the pulpit should not be actively gay.
I said I thought within the church is fine, and a gay pastor should adhere to the words of Jesus in John 8:11. "Go, and sin no more." Taken literally, that is impossible because none are perfect and can stay without sin. But if you interpret that as to mean, "Go, and do not take up a life of willful sin again." then it is more easily understood.
Sinners should always be welcome into the Church, for it is the one place they can be shown the path to resisting sin, and be forgiven for past sins. I've never heard of a church solely for saints.
Married gays are (in my opinion) as married as any heterosexual married couple. I'm sure more traditional ministers will disagree, but they are human, so they just may not be right.

WTF is, "actively practicing homosexuality"?
That is like saying, "actively practicing womanhood" or, "actively practicing being black."
It fundamentally misunderstands the concept.

Having homosexual sex is "actively practicing" homosexuality. You, of all people, should know that. Women and blacks in the UMC pulpit has been an accepted fact for decades.

[Walter]

Feb 27, 2019 8:47:17 GMT -5 AlaCowboy said:

Feb 27, 2019 1:28:53 GMT -5 Walter said:

WTF is, "actively practicing homosexuality"?
That is like saying, "actively practicing womanhood" or, "actively practicing being black."
It fundamentally misunderstands the concept.

Having homosexual sex is "actively practicing" homosexuality. You, of all people, should know that. Women and blacks in the UMC pulpit has been an accepted fact for decades.

So gay people who don't have sex aren't gay?
LOL...okay.

[Buckeye Dale]

Feb 27, 2019 17:37:42 GMT -5 Walter said:

Feb 27, 2019 8:47:17 GMT -5 AlaCowboy said:

Having homosexual sex is "actively practicing" homosexuality. You, of all people, should know that. Women and blacks in the UMC pulpit has been an accepted fact for decades.

So gay people who don't have sex aren't gay?
LOL...okay.

No, they're just happy...(I learned the meanings of many words before those words were highjacked)

[AlaCowboy]

Feb 27, 2019 17:37:42 GMT -5 Walter said:

Feb 27, 2019 8:47:17 GMT -5 AlaCowboy said:

Having homosexual sex is "actively practicing" homosexuality. You, of all people, should know that. Women and blacks in the UMC pulpit has been an accepted fact for decades.

So gay people who don't have sex aren't gay?
LOL...okay.

I didn't say that. You're too stupid to follow serious discussions. Go away.
Better yet. Give me the ability in here to put you on ignore.

[Walter]

Feb 27, 2019 21:01:58 GMT -5 AlaCowboy said:

Feb 27, 2019 17:37:42 GMT -5 Walter said:

So gay people who don't have sex aren't gay?
LOL...okay.

I didn't say that. You're too stupid to follow serious discussions. Go away.
Better yet. Give me the ability in here to put you on ignore.

So, let us recap. Gay folks can BE gay. They just have to refrain from living their lives in ways that offend all you straight people.
As BaM is fond of saying:
"...mighty white of you."

[AlaCowboy]

Feb 28, 2019 7:33:30 GMT -5 Walter said:

Feb 27, 2019 21:01:58 GMT -5 AlaCowboy said:

I didn't say that. You're too stupid to follow serious discussions. Go away.
Better yet. Give me the ability in here to put you on ignore.

So, let us recap. Gay folks can BE gay. They just have to refrain from living their lives in ways that offend all you straight people.
As BaM is fond of saying:
"...mighty white of you."

Walter, your silly little games may look cute to you but few of us find them amusing or interesting. It doesn't do a good job of hiding your inability to discuss matters in an intelligent manner. Instead, it highlights it.
If I had the ability to put you on ignore I would so so. Then I would only occasionally see your inane remarks when someone else "quoted" you in their comments.