Who Shorted United and American Airlines Stock Before 9/11?

[Deleted]

Mar 23, 2019 15:38:18 GMT -5 oujour76 said:

Mar 23, 2019 15:25:36 GMT -5 Walter said:

I am trying to figure out how this answers the Q, "Where are the passengers", but I am drawing a blank.
Help me out here, Willie.
Where are the passengers again?

He’s shorting his answer.

This thread is not about the 53 "passengers" listed by the government on the 220 seat AA 77 flight that did NOT hit the Pentagon on 9/11.

Did they exist?  Or were they "created" (with photos, legends, etc., by the CIA?)  What is the verified evidence?

Barbara Olson, obviously, didn't make any phone calls from AA 77, and she is still alive-- post- plastic surgery.

This thread is about the observed shorting of airline stocks just before 9/11.

You guys, obviously, don't want to talk about the well-documented fact that someone affiliated with Bush's CIA Executive Director, Buzzy Krongard, shorted United and American Airlines stock before 9/11 do you?

WHY DO YOU SCREWBALLS REFUSE TO TALK ABOUT THE SUBJECT OF THIS THREAD?!

[daleko]

Mar 23, 2019 11:57:38 GMT -5 @drlumbago said:

Walter,

    Stay focused, for once.

    How did Bush's CIA Executive Director know to short United and American Airlines stock just before 9/11?

   Answer my question, for once.

This conspiracy, that institutions, and perhaps some individuals who joined in because they perhaps had access to investment counselors who had access to that strategy, has been deemed not connected to the actual event on 9/11, years ago.

The problem w any of your contentions gleaned from conspiracy sites, is that those sites have had almost 20 years to refine their tale. Adjusting their story to fit their agenda. Taking a snippet of a fact, then molding it, changing it it many cases, to create their story. And almost 20 yrs later most in the public don't have a clear comprehension of what the facts are and either think, well that sounds logical or just don't care. All fostered by those, either duped by these sites or get paid by these sites to spread the tale, who post this nonsense, around the globe.

In this case here are the facts and they were closely examined by the SEC, FBI, NSA, Euro .gov agencies. You need to study up on puts and calls. And options trading in general. You who kept his money in a tin can buried in his back yard, since Trump won might find this all foreign.

A single U.S.-based institutional investor with no conceivable ties to al Qaeda purchased 95 percent of the UAL puts on September 6 as part of a trading strategy that also included buying 115,000 shares of American on September 10. Similarly, much of the seemingly suspicious trading in American on September 10 was traced to a specific U.S. based options trading newsletter, faxed to its subscribers on Sunday, September 9, which recommended these trades. Individuals and smaller institutions who subscribe to and follow investment advise, particularly those who don't feel that putting money in a tin can, then burying said money in their back yard, consider complicated investment tools prudent investing.

Re Alvin "Buzzy" Krongard. Before he joined the CIA, not as a Director btw but as an Executive Director, that's #3 in the chain of command, he had an almost 30 yr career as a high level high risk/reward business guy. He made a lot of money. A lot. At the time of 9/11 an investment bank he once headed made previously noted trades. That he once lead, as in past tense.

In short, this is all BULLSHIT. 

So now I will ask, where are the passengers?

[Deleted]

Cheese Burgher,

    Thanks for demonstrating so clearly how you, and many Americans, were completely bamboozled by the Cheney-Wolfowitz-Zelikow 9/11 conspiracy theory.

    What Zelikow wrote about the obvious insider trading prior to 9/11 by Krongard's bank was that no 9/11 insider trading was "linked to Al Qaeda."

     The false implication was that; 1) "Al Qaeda" did 9/11, and 2) that the "Al Qaeda" decoys working for the CIA and the Mossad on 9/11 had no links to CIA Executive Director Buzzy Krongard.   

    Congratulations for swallowing Zelikow's feces.  Bon appetit...

[Walter]

Mar 28, 2019 13:40:08 GMT -5 @drlumbago said:

Cheese Burgher,

    Thanks for demonstrating so clearly how you, and many Americans, were completely bamboozled by the Cheney-Wolfowitz-Zelikow 9/11 conspiracy theory.

    What Zelikow wrote about the obvious insider trading prior to 9/11 by Krongard's bank was that no 9/11 insider trading was "linked to Al Qaeda."

     The false implication was that; 1) "Al Qaeda" did 9/11, and 2) that the "Al Qaeda" decoys working for the CIA and the Mossad on 9/11 had no links to CIA Executive Director Buzzy Krongard.   

    Congratulations for swallowing Zelikow's feces.  Bon appetit...

Strange that you couldn't answer his questions about the whereabouts of the passengers.
Why is that?

..and stranger still, everyone on this board knows the answer to his question.
Everyone here knows where those passengers and crew are located.

Everyone but you.

Here's where the pilot is today.

[daleko]

Mar 28, 2019 13:40:08 GMT -5 @drlumbago said:

Cheese Burgher,

    Thanks for demonstrating so clearly how you, and many Americans, were completely bamboozled by the Cheney-Wolfowitz-Zelikow 9/11 conspiracy theory.

    What Zelikow wrote about the obvious insider trading prior to 9/11 by Krongard's bank was that no 9/11 insider trading was "linked to Al Qaeda."

     The false implication was that; 1) "Al Qaeda" did 9/11, and 2) that the "Al Qaeda" decoys working for the CIA and the Mossad on 9/11 had no links to CIA Executive Director Buzzy Krongard.   

    Congratulations for swallowing Zelikow's feces.  Bon appetit...

Clearly, given your hide it in a tin can investment strategy, you have no or little understanding of what a put, which is a derivative investment, is in options trading. Or a call ftm. They are married. Essentially it's a deal between two parties that allows one to sell a share of a particular stock to another , neither of whom own the optioned share, at an agreed to or strike price, with an expiration date to initiate the trade. Millions can be made on very small movements.

It's an agreement between two. Both are logged. Someone has to initiate the transfer, someone has to then find some shares, buy them, then turn them over. The receiver then accepts the shares bought. Gov agencies around the world looked into it. And they are very good at it. There is no question who benefited from any of the trades. Name names about who benefited from this "obvious case of insider trading". Krongard? Nope. He's been vetted. 

But first, where are the passengers?

[Deleted]

Huh, Daleko?  This is one of the dumbest things you've ever posted.

My "hide it in a tin can investment strategy?"  Get back on your meds.

You remain the most clueless guy on the planet when it comes to accurately perceiving data.

Study the data in the article linked* below, Sherlock...SLOWLY... This is called a "clue."

1)  The shorting of AA and UAL stock just before 9/11 was statistically anomalous-- unusual volume, and limited to AA and UAL.

2)  It was traced chiefly to CIA Executive Director Buzzy Krongard's close business associate Michael Shattuck (at Deutsche Bank.)

   

     (Shattuck abruptly resigned from DB on 9/12/01.)

*  counterinformation.wordpress.com/2016/05/25/911-the-evidence-for-insider-trading/

[daleko]

Mar 28, 2019 20:52:04 GMT -5 @drlumbago said:

Huh, Daleko?  This is one of the dumbest things you've ever posted.

My "hide it in a tin can investment strategy?"  Get back on your meds.

You remain the most clueless guy on the planet when it comes to accurately perceiving data.

Study the data in the article linked* below, Sherlock...SLOWLY... This is called a "clue."

1)  The shorting of AA and UAL stock just before 9/11 was statistically anomalous-- unusual volume, and limited to AA and UAL.

2)  It was traced chiefly to CIA Executive Director Buzzy Krongard's close business associate Michael Shattuck (at Deutsche Bank.)

   

     (Shattuck abruptly resigned from DB on 9/12/01.)

*  counterinformation.wordpress.com/2016/05/25/911-the-evidence-for-insider-trading/

Untrue. Your link is BS on several levels. Milo also worked for Mitt Romney. Are you hooking in Mitt? They have traced every P&C involved w AA & UAL. Every one. It ain't hard to do. It just takes time. Typical Willie uninformed BULLSHIT. Mayo was the strategist in the merger of a cpl of firms, incl one he supposed close associate ran, that eventually DB bought. He was a talented outsider. 

The biggest blot on Milo's career CV was when he ran the Harvard  endowment. He left DB to become president and CEO of Constellation Energy Group, and he was elected chairman of the board in July 2002. He left abruptly because they offered him uber $s. 
This is shy I generally ignore your Bullshit. It's all crap. A smidgen of truth packaged into a conspiracy. Bullshit.

Where's the passengers? 

[Deleted]

Mar 28, 2019 22:49:22 GMT -5 daleko said:

Mar 28, 2019 20:52:04 GMT -5 @drlumbago said:

Huh, Daleko?  This is one of the dumbest things you've ever posted.

My "hide it in a tin can investment strategy?"  Get back on your meds.

You remain the most clueless guy on the planet when it comes to accurately perceiving data.

Study the data in the article linked* below, Sherlock...SLOWLY... This is called a "clue."

1)  The shorting of AA and UAL stock just before 9/11 was statistically anomalous-- unusual volume, and limited to AA and UAL.

2)  It was traced chiefly to CIA Executive Director Buzzy Krongard's close business associate Michael Shattuck (at Deutsche Bank.)

   

     (Shattuck abruptly resigned from DB on 9/12/01.)

*  counterinformation.wordpress.com/2016/05/25/911-the-evidence-for-insider-trading/

Untrue. Your link is BS on several levels. Milo also worked for Mitt Romney. Are you hooking in Mitt? They have traced every P&C involved w AA & UAL. Every one. It ain't hard to do. It just takes time. Typical Willie uninformed BULLSHIT. Mayo was the strategist in the merger of a cpl of firms, incl one he supposed close associate ran, that eventually DB bought. He was a talented outsider. 

The biggest blot on Milo's career CV was when he ran the Harvard  endowment. He left DB to become president and CEO of Constellation Energy Group, and he was elected chairman of the board in July 2002. He left abruptly because they offered him uber $s. 
This is shy I generally ignore your Bullshit. It's all crap. A smidgen of truth packaged into a conspiracy. Bullshit.

Where's the passengers? 

Three things, Daleko...

1)  This is a thread about the well-documented, highly unusual shorting of UAL and AA stock just before 9/11.  Put on your thinking cap.

2)  Your question about the 9/11 airline passengers cannot be answered with a simple Trump troll sound byte.  (See our discussions on the "passenger" threads, including the obvious evidence that the "passenger" phone calls from planes on 9/11 never happened.)

3)  Here are some key facts about Krongard's associates shorting UAL and AA stock before the 9/11 op.  Enjoy.

9/11 – The Evidence For Insider Trading

counterinformation.wordpress.com/2016/05/25/911-the-evidence-for-insider-trading/

      "...Al Qaeda had nothing to do with the insider trading.xiv When the evidentiary trail led back to Wall Street, the SEC moved quickly to control the evidence and muzzle potential whistleblowers. Despite the best efforts of the SEC, however, a few details did leak to the world press. In mid-October 2001, The Independent(UK) reported, “To the embarrassment of investigators, it has … emerged that the firm used to buy many of the ‘put’ options – where a trader, in effect, bets on a share price fall – on United Airlines stock was headed until 1998 by Alvin ‘Buzzy’ Krongard, now executive director of the CIA.”xv

For the most part, the US press failed to pick up the story, which linked Wall Street and the US intelligence community to the 9/11 attacks. Indeed, even before the leak, some of the press had begun backing away from the early reports of insider trading. For example, in a story posted on October 1, 2001, the New York Times cited experts who attributed the spike in put options for United and American Airlines as most likely due to a slumping airline industry. "xvi

"The CIA involvement in the stock market probably evolved over time, 9/11 being a logical outcome. No question, Marchetti and Marks’ early research bolsters the credibility of the leaked information linking the CIA’s number three executive Buzzy Krongard to the pre-9/11 insider trading scam.xxviii Was Krongard simply freelancing, or was inside trading part of a larger CIA covert operation?"

Three Academic Papers

The case for insider trading is strongly supported by three published scientific studies, all of which confirm an unusual volume in options trading in the days before 9/11. The first of these peer-reviewed papers was by Professor Allen Poteshman of the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, and was based on trading data from the Chicago Board Option Exchange (CBOE). Poteshman’s study appeared in the respected Journal of Business, and should have been known to the 9/11 Commission because it was accepted for publication in 2004, while the official investigation was still underway. The Commission’s Final Report, however, makes no mention of it, probably because Poteshman’s conclusion that insider trading occurred, to a probability of 99%, flatly contradicts the official findings.xxx

The second study, by Professor Marc Chesney and two colleagues, one from the University of Zurich and another from the Swiss Finance Institute, examined in detail fourteen suspect corporations and found evidence of insider trading in a number of stocks, including American and United Airlines, Boeing, Merrill Lynch, J.P. Morgan, Citigroup and Bank of America.xxxi Chesney’s paper also refutes early reports that some inside traders failed to collect their winnings out of fear of exposure and subsequent arrest.xxxii On the contrary; the data shows that all of the 9/11-related put options were exercised, meaning that pay-outs occurred for each and every stock option. This was also confirmed by no less than Joseph Cella, the SEC official who headed up the SEC insider trading probe.xxxiii

Which of course means that the traders with foreknowledge of the attacks got away with their obscene winnings. The total pay out for the options studied by Chesney was an estimated $15 million. However, according to Paul Zarembka, an economics professor at the State University of New York (SUNY) at Buffalo, the total pay-out of allthe options before and after 9/11 was probably on the order of $30 million.xxxiv

A third study by two Asian economists and a professor at the University of Wisconsin further embarrassed the 9/11 Commission by examining the Standard & Poor’s 500 Index, which according to the SEC and 9/11 Commission could not be investigated due to the high volume of trading.xxxv Nonetheless, when the professors did what was supposedly impossible, they found a “significant abnormal increase in the trading volume in the option market just before the 9-11 attacks.” The authors concluded there was “credible circumstantial evidence to support the insider trading claim.”xxxvi They also refuted the counter argument that the spike in options was due to a generally declining stock market. Incidentally, the SEC’s failure to investigate Standard & Poor’s fatally undermines the Commission’s description of the SEC investigation as “exhaustive.” Clearly, it was anything but.

In sum, three separate statistical studies by three academic teams all reached the same conclusion. The joint probability that all three were “nothing more than random outliers seems” in the words of economist Paul Zarembka, “astronomically low.”xxxvii Nor has anyone to date refuted any of the three important studies.

[daleko]

Mar 29, 2019 12:35:37 GMT -5 @drlumbago said:

Mar 28, 2019 22:49:22 GMT -5 daleko said:

Three things, Cheese Burgher...

1)  This is a thread about the well-documented, highly unusual shorting of UAL and AA stock just before 9/11. A smidgen of truth. The spawn of a conspiracy.

2)  Your question about the 9/11 airline passengers cannot be answered with a simple Trump troll sound byte.  (See our discussions on the "passenger" threads, including the obvious evidence that the "passenger" phone calls from planes on 9/11 never happened. And never answered. Where's the passengers? Pretty easy. Walt found one. Your turn to disprove that grave isn't one of them. 

3)  Here are some key facts about Krongard's associates (loose term) shorting UAL and AA stock before the 9/11 op.  Enjoy.

A single U.S.-based institutional investor purchased 95 percent of the UAL puts on September 6 as part of a trading strategy that also included buying 115,000 shares of American on September 10. Similarly, much of the seemingly suspicious trading in American on September 10 was traced to a specific U.S. based options trading newsletter, faxed to its subscribers on Sunday, September 9, which recommended these trades. Individuals and smaller institutions who subscribe to and follow investment advise, particularly those who don't feel that putting money in a tin can, then burying said money in their back yard, consider complicated investment tools prudent investing.
Many do it as a side activity w a "play fund" just for grins. Risk/Gain can be fun.

Another rabbit hole generated by your friendly conspiracy addict.

Where's the passengers?

Maybe you think they were abducted by aliens and will return from some day, as they did in "Close Encounters". That's it. They were abducted by aliens and are now on their way to Section 421-9.

[Deleted]

Mar 29, 2019 13:11:30 GMT -5 daleko said:

Mar 29, 2019 12:35:37 GMT -5 @drlumbago said:

Three things, Cheese Burgher...

1)  This is a thread about the well-documented, highly unusual shorting of UAL and AA stock just before 9/11. A smidgen of truth. The spawn of a conspiracy.

2)  Your question about the 9/11 airline passengers cannot be answered with a simple Trump troll sound byte.  (See our discussions on the "passenger" threads, including the obvious evidence that the "passenger" phone calls from planes on 9/11 never happened. And never answered. Where's the passengers? Pretty easy. Walt found one. Your turn to disprove that grave isn't one of them. 

3)  Here are some key facts about Krongard's associates (loose term) shorting UAL and AA stock before the 9/11 op.  Enjoy.

A single U.S.-based institutional investor purchased 95 percent of the UAL puts on September 6 as part of a trading strategy that also included buying 115,000 shares of American on September 10. Similarly, much of the seemingly suspicious trading in American on September 10 was traced to a specific U.S. based options trading newsletter, faxed to its subscribers on Sunday, September 9, which recommended these trades. Individuals and smaller institutions who subscribe to and follow investment advise, particularly those who don't feel that putting money in a tin can, then burying said money in their back yard, consider complicated investment tools prudent investing.
Many do it as a side activity w a "play fund" just for grins. Risk/Gain can be fun.

Another rabbit hole generated by your friendly conspiracy addict.

Where's the passengers?

Maybe you think they were abducted by aliens and will return from some day, as they did in "Close Encounters". That's it. They were abducted by aliens and are now on their way to Section 421-9.

Cheese Burgher,

I'm calling bullsh*t on your phony "options newsletter" alibi for the obvious pre-9/11 shorting of UAL and AA stock by Krongard's business associates.

Post a link with evidence that your phony baloney newsletter ever existed prior to 9/11-- and recommended shorting UAL and AA.

Also, your lame alibi doesn't explain why Phillip Zelikow's 9/11 Ommission Report blacked-out any references to the 9/11 insider trading.

It reminds me of your CIA-contractor who invented the "Great Pumpkin" theory about JFK's assassination AFTER the public finally got a chance to see the original Zapruder film.

(See my above answer to your out-of-place "passenger" nonsense.)

[daleko]

Mar 29, 2019 17:19:24 GMT -5 @drlumbago said:

Mar 29, 2019 13:11:30 GMT -5 daleko said:

Cheese Burgher,

I'm calling bullsh*t on your phony "options newsletter" alibi for the obvious pre-9/11 shorting of UAL and AA stock by Krongard's business associates.

Post a link with evidence that your phony baloney newsletter ever existed prior to 9/11-- and recommended shorting UAL and AA.

I don't why I subject myself to a financial illiterate but I will just this once w some help in you finding what you seek. Whatever I again research you'll just hop into another square or refuse to accept. Sooooooooo, no point in spending any more time in conversing w you but I will leave you w a short review. The info is available if you want to spend some hoofing time. I won't do it because you aren't worth it. Your history here is to extend  any "debate" read, for normal people, discussion, at any cost. You have, in effect, fucked yourself in having any reasonable dialog w anyone here w your past habits.

A bit of background. The airline industry was in serious finance trouble even prior to the attacks, as business and consumer travel demand slacked off in a weakening economy. And both AMR and UAL posted huge second-quarter losses in July and said they could be in the red for the rest of the year.

This information you seek is common knowledge. What you people count on in any like event is that those w the knowledge move on to real issues after having closed one or they die. Then the conspiracy rats, like yourself, have a green field to paint as you want. While the rest of the world was chasing the why of 9/11, those responsible for the financial health of the market were already investigating these trades. As in the next day. SOP.

W/O spending the  time to again research it through sites I have available,  I'll give you this link. Not the best but it will give you enough direction to find the truth. I doubt, however, you are interested in that, as your mind is already made up. Or just call your wealth adviser and have his/her staff do it. I guess I could do the same but again you aren't worth it.
www.snopes.com/fact-check/put-paid/  Again, Willie, the trades are all logged. Every consummated Put, every consummated Call. This has been reviewed in detail years ago, starting on 9/12. 

[Deleted]

Daleko,

    Study the references I posted for you, and learn something.

    The shorting of UAL and AA stock just before 9/11 was highly anomalous in several respects--the opposite of "business as usual."

    Unusual pre-9/11 insider trading was also traced to Wirt Walker, George W. Bush's cousin.

     This data is one of a thousand pieces of the CIA/Mossad 9/11 op jigsaw puzzle.

     You would be amazed at the amount of data science (and professional) researchers have amassed about this Crime of the 21st Century

[Walter]

SMH...like talking to a volleyball.

[Walter]

Mar 30, 2019 0:11:52 GMT -5 @drlumbago said:

Daleko,

    Study the references I posted for you, and learn something.

    The shorting of UAL and AA stock just before 9/11 was highly anomalous in several respects--the opposite of "business as usual."

    Unusual pre-9/11 insider trading was also traced to Wirt Walker, George W. Bush's cousin.

     This data is one of a thousand pieces of the CIA/Mossad 9/11 op jigsaw puzzle.

     You would be amazed at the amount of data science (and professional) researchers have amassed about this Crime of the 21st Century

You would be amazed, unlike the rest of us, about how much of that data is wrong, especially if you asked those "professionals" simple questions like, "Where are the passengers?", at which time those pros turn into volleyballs.

[oujour76]

Mar 30, 2019 8:14:05 GMT -5 Walter said:

SMH...like talking to a volleyball.

True. Henceforth, he shall be called Wilson.