California federal court overturns CA's AWB

[AlaCowboy]

Jun 7, 2021 7:58:50 GMT -5 Walter said:

Jun 6, 2021 22:47:24 GMT -5 AlaCowboy said:

Here is the most compelling statement from this decision. Too bad none of the TDS Liberals will accept or acknowledge it.

"But it should be obvious that barring total extinction of the Second Amendment, no amount of “common sense” gun control laws will prevent criminals from misusing guns."

The Looney Leftist Liberals care not that the criminals must first be disarmed in order to make honest citizens willing to accept stronger state and federal scrutiny on firearm ownership.

Only problem with that is the fact that every single criminal is an honest citizen right up until the moment he isn't any longer.

There are plenty enough that have crossed the line from honest citizen to criminal for the justice system to focus on them instead of the honest citizens. Do you recommend the justice system punish people before they commit any crimes? You Loony Leftist Liberals want laws to punish honest citizens but none to punish criminals.
As I have said many times before, disarm all criminals, then we can discuss more restrictive gun laws.

[Walter]

Jun 7, 2021 10:25:51 GMT -5 AlaCowboy said:

Jun 7, 2021 7:58:50 GMT -5 Walter said:

Only problem with that is the fact that every single criminal is an honest citizen right up until the moment he isn't any longer.

There are plenty enough that have crossed the line from honest citizen to criminal for the justice system to focus on them instead of the honest citizens. Do you recommend the justice system punish people before they commit any crimes? You Loony Leftist Liberals want laws to punish honest citizens but none to punish criminals.
As I have said many times before, disarm all criminals, then we can discuss more restrictive gun laws.

Explain how background checks, gun registration and transaction tracking is 'punishment'.

[dilligaf]

Jun 7, 2021 10:43:46 GMT -5 Walter said:

Jun 7, 2021 10:25:51 GMT -5 AlaCowboy said:

There are plenty enough that have crossed the line from honest citizen to criminal for the justice system to focus on them instead of the honest citizens. Do you recommend the justice system punish people before they commit any crimes? You Loony Leftist Liberals want laws to punish honest citizens but none to punish criminals.
As I have said many times before, disarm all criminals, then we can discuss more restrictive gun laws.

Explain how background checks, gun registration and transaction tracking is 'punishment'.

It is an invasion of privacy, genius.

1. A private citizen has no business knowing another's background.

2. My guns belong to ME. They don't belong on anyone's registration list.   Lists facilitate later seizure.

3. There is no reason to "track" transactions, other than to facilitate later seizure.

You don't have to call it "punishment" in order to see that it is a direct step towards eventual slavery.

Your end goal is the same one Hitler and every Communist leader has had.
Do you REALLY want to live in Russia, China, or N. Korea?

[Walter]

Jun 13, 2021 8:10:46 GMT -5 dilligaf said:

Jun 7, 2021 10:43:46 GMT -5 Walter said:

Explain how background checks, gun registration and transaction tracking is 'punishment'.

It is an invasion of privacy, genius.

1. A private citizen has no business knowing another's background.

2. My guns belong to ME. They don't belong on anyone's registration list.   Lists facilitate later seizure.

3. There is no reason to "track" transactions, other than to facilitate later seizure.

You don't have to call it "punishment" in order to see that it is a direct step towards eventual slavery.

Your end goal is the same one Hitler and every Communist leader has had.
Do you REALLY want to live in Russia, China, or N. Korea?

Has auto registration punished you? Does it enslave you? Is it a steppingstone to totalitarianism? If not, why not?
How 'bout federal oversight of money transactions over $10K? How does the govt get to watch your private financial dealings?
Does that punish you? Does it enslave you? If not, why not?

[Panama pfRedd]

Jun 13, 2021 10:18:06 GMT -5 Walter said:

Jun 13, 2021 8:10:46 GMT -5 dilligaf said:

It is an invasion of privacy, genius.

1. A private citizen has no business knowing another's background.

2. My guns belong to ME. They don't belong on anyone's registration list.   Lists facilitate later seizure.

3. There is no reason to "track" transactions, other than to facilitate later seizure.

You don't have to call it "punishment" in order to see that it is a direct step towards eventual slavery.

Your end goal is the same one Hitler and every Communist leader has had.
Do you REALLY want to live in Russia, China, or N. Korea?

Has auto registration punished you? Does it enslave you? Is it a steppingstone to totalitarianism? If not, why not?
How 'bout federal oversight of money transactions over $10K? How does the govt get to watch your private financial dealings?
Does that punish you? Does it enslave you? If not, why not?

Who's going to take up cars against an out of control tyrannical gov't? Same old idiot with the car registration twaddle...

[dilligaf]

Jun 13, 2021 10:18:06 GMT -5 Walter said:

Jun 13, 2021 8:10:46 GMT -5 dilligaf said:

It is an invasion of privacy, genius.

1. A private citizen has no business knowing another's background.

2. My guns belong to ME. They don't belong on anyone's registration list.   Lists facilitate later seizure.

3. There is no reason to "track" transactions, other than to facilitate later seizure.

You don't have to call it "punishment" in order to see that it is a direct step towards eventual slavery.

Your end goal is the same one Hitler and every Communist leader has had.
Do you REALLY want to live in Russia, China, or N. Korea?

Has auto registration punished you? Does it enslave you? Is it a steppingstone to totalitarianism? If not, why not?
How 'bout federal oversight of money transactions over $10K? How does the govt get to watch your private financial dealings?
Does that punish you? Does it enslave you? If not, why not?

Driving a car is a privilege.   Owning a gun is a RIGHT.   Learn the difference.

I am too poor to make transactions over $10K.
From what I understand, watching bank transactions of large amounts of money is meant to somehow combat drug trafficking.  I am sure it is VERY effective in doing that (HUGE sarcasm).

Thank you for allowing me to shoot you down.
AGAIN.

[Panama pfRedd]

Jun 13, 2021 12:52:25 GMT -5 dilligaf said:

Jun 13, 2021 10:18:06 GMT -5 Walter said:

Has auto registration punished you? Does it enslave you? Is it a steppingstone to totalitarianism? If not, why not?
How 'bout federal oversight of money transactions over $10K? How does the govt get to watch your private financial dealings?
Does that punish you? Does it enslave you? If not, why not?

Driving a car is a privilege.   Owning a gun is a RIGHT.   Learn the difference.

I am too poor to make transactions over $10K.
From what I understand, watching bank transactions of large amounts of money is meant to somehow combat drug trafficking.  I am sure it is VERY effective in doing that (HUGE sarcasm).

Thank you for allowing me to shoot you down.
AGAIN.

One of the 'good cause' reasons I gave on my CCW application was that I carried large sums of cash while traveling through very remote regions of CA on our many road trips to NV each year. Typically around $8k. Simply because I don't want to leave it at home in the safe. It's kept on hand in case there's an event that won't allow people to get their money out of the banking system.

[dilligaf]

Jun 13, 2021 13:00:01 GMT -5 Panama pfRedd said:

Jun 13, 2021 12:52:25 GMT -5 dilligaf said:

Driving a car is a privilege.   Owning a gun is a RIGHT.   Learn the difference.

I am too poor to make transactions over $10K.
From what I understand, watching bank transactions of large amounts of money is meant to somehow combat drug trafficking.  I am sure it is VERY effective in doing that (HUGE sarcasm).

Thank you for allowing me to shoot you down.
AGAIN.

One of the 'good cause' reasons I gave on my CCW application was that I carried large sums of cash while traveling through very remote regions of CA on our many road trips to NV each year. Typically around $8k. Simply because I don't want to leave it at home in the safe. It's kept on hand in case there's an event that won't allow people to get their money out of the banking system.

"Good cause?"    LOL.  What a joke.

" 'Cause it is my RIGHT" is the appropriate answer.   Thank God I don't have to justify my RIGHTS to anyone here.

[Panama pfRedd]

Jun 13, 2021 13:11:43 GMT -5 dilligaf said:

Jun 13, 2021 13:00:01 GMT -5 Panama pfRedd said:

One of the 'good cause' reasons I gave on my CCW application was that I carried large sums of cash while traveling through very remote regions of CA on our many road trips to NV each year. Typically around $8k. Simply because I don't want to leave it at home in the safe. It's kept on hand in case there's an event that won't allow people to get their money out of the banking system.

"Good cause?"    LOL.  What a joke.

" 'Cause it is my RIGHT" is the appropriate answer.   Thank God I don't have to justify my RIGHTS to anyone here.

Tell me about it.

[Walter]

Jun 13, 2021 12:52:25 GMT -5 dilligaf said:

Jun 13, 2021 10:18:06 GMT -5 Walter said:

Has auto registration punished you? Does it enslave you? Is it a steppingstone to totalitarianism? If not, why not?
How 'bout federal oversight of money transactions over $10K? How does the govt get to watch your private financial dealings?
Does that punish you? Does it enslave you? If not, why not?

Driving a car is a privilege.   Owning a gun is a RIGHT.   Learn the difference.

I am too poor to make transactions over $10K.
From what I understand, watching bank transactions of large amounts of money is meant to somehow combat drug trafficking.  I am sure it is VERY effective in doing that (HUGE sarcasm).

Thank you for allowing me to shoot you down.
AGAIN.

I totally agree it is your right.
I asked you how registering a gun punishes and enslaves you.
Still waiting to hear the answer.

[dilligaf]

Jun 13, 2021 13:50:51 GMT -5 Walter said:

Jun 13, 2021 12:52:25 GMT -5 dilligaf said:

Driving a car is a privilege.   Owning a gun is a RIGHT.   Learn the difference.

I am too poor to make transactions over $10K.
From what I understand, watching bank transactions of large amounts of money is meant to somehow combat drug trafficking.  I am sure it is VERY effective in doing that (HUGE sarcasm).

Thank you for allowing me to shoot you down.
AGAIN.

I totally agree it is your right.
I asked you how registering a gun punishes and enslaves you.
Still waiting to hear the answer.

I have already explained it is no one's business what guns I own.
I have already explained that registration leads to a future confiscation list that can be used to disarm and enslave us.

If you say "that will never happen here", then GOOD .......... you have just proven there is no need for registration.

"The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."       Registration is an infringement.

[Walter]

Jun 13, 2021 16:43:40 GMT -5 dilligaf said:

Jun 13, 2021 13:50:51 GMT -5 Walter said:

I totally agree it is your right.
I asked you how registering a gun punishes and enslaves you.
Still waiting to hear the answer.

I have already explained it is no one's business what guns I own.
I have already explained that registration leads to a future confiscation list that can be used to disarm and enslave us.

If you say "that will never happen here", then GOOD .......... you have just proven there is no need for registration.

"The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."       Registration is an infringement.

Are you claiming that there is no law enforcement value in knowing who owns a gun used to commit a crime; that the only use of registration is future confiscation?

[daleko]

Jun 13, 2021 10:18:06 GMT -5 Walter said:

How 'bout federal oversight of money transactions over $10K? How does the govt get to watch your private financial dealings? 
Does that punish you? Duh. Really? Hell yes. Does it enslave you? If you net zero, essentially. Walt it isn't all drug dealers getting nabbed. Or Terrorists. Or any kind of launderers.

It, begat in 1970, today, is totally misguided at the $10,000 level. Maybe even $100K.  Overreach, over interest. IMO.

As is the .gov ability to confiscate sums of cash they deem suspicious. While the law stipulates it must be returned or criminal proceedings must be immediately initiated, ain't always so.

Valid, documented stories abound. Including aged citizens who kept cash in their house because they didn't trust banks. Then have to fight .gov to get it back.

In the mid-70s I usually kept $10K under the spare tire. Never knew when I'd come across a hot muscle car, pre-restrictions, to buy. Cash, then, was king. Still is, I'm told. Time to react matters, sometimes. 

Today, it'd be a drug buy in the making. Ain't always so. 

Civil asset forfeiture can and has been abused by .gov staffers. And then the citizen has to hire counsel, at an oop cost, to get it back his own money. 

[Walter]

Jun 14, 2021 19:50:37 GMT -5 daleko said:

Jun 13, 2021 10:18:06 GMT -5 Walter said:

How 'bout federal oversight of money transactions over $10K? How does the govt get to watch your private financial dealings? 
Does that punish you? Duh. Really? Hell yes. Does it enslave you? If you net zero, essentially. Walt it isn't all drug dealers getting nabbed. Or Terrorists. Or any kind of launderers.

It, begat in 1970, today, is totally misguided at the $10,000 level. Maybe even $100K.  Overreach, over interest. IMO.

As is the .gov ability to confiscate sums of cash they deem suspicious. While the law stipulates it must be returned or criminal proceedings must be immediately initiated, ain't always so.

Valid, documented stories abound. Including aged citizens who kept cash in their house because they didn't trust banks. Then have to fight .gov to get it back.

In the mid-70s I usually kept $10K under the spare tire. Never knew when I'd come across a hot muscle car, pre-restrictions, to buy. Cash, then, was king. Still is, I'm told. Time to react matters, sometimes. 

Today, it'd be a drug buy in the making. Ain't always so. 

Civil asset forfeiture can and has been abused by .gov staffers. And then the citizen has to hire counsel, at an oop cost, to get it back his own money. 

I routinely receive $10k+ payments for work and on rare occasion even front $10K+ for a client . Never had an issue.
As I understand it, the bank has to report it and that's about it.
I think you are conflating that with forfeiture laws that require probable cause that a crime has been committed. Not the same law (at least I don't think it is). And yeah, THAT law has examples of all sorts of abuse...like this...

www.courthousenews.com/fbi-sued-over-beverly-hills-safety-deposit-box-seizures/

BTW, As I understand it, Bitcoin has basically made that law useless. No self-respecting criminal uses real currency anymore.

[daleko]

Jun 14, 2021 20:07:52 GMT -5 Walter said:

Jun 14, 2021 19:50:37 GMT -5 daleko said:

I routinely receive $10k+ payments for work and on rare occasion even front $10K+ for a client . Never had an issue.
As I understand it, the bank has to report it and that's about it.
I think you are conflating that with forfeiture laws that require probable cause that a crime has been committed. Not the same law (at least I don't think it is). Could be. I thought they were under the same umbrella. Perhaps not.

And yeah, THAT law has examples of all sorts of abuse...like this...

www.courthousenews.com/fbi-sued-over-beverly-hills-safety-deposit-box-seizures/

BTW, As I understand it, Bitcoin has basically made that law useless. No self-respecting criminal uses real currency anymore. In the old days, you'd move money to Panama and get a debit card. We've come a long way, baby.   Again, for me the $10K threshold is misguided, imo. In 1970, it had a lot more meaning than it does today. Gotta be worth $70K today.