THE BIGGEST DOUCHE OF THE FULL SEASON TOURNAMENT - 2021
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Post by daleko on Apr 26, 2024 15:07:13 GMT -5
If the United States Supreme Court sends the presidential immunity case back to the circuit court, what effect will that have on the other politically motivated "trials" against Trump? Also, if the circuit court rules for partial immunity, will that court have to state what acts are not covered and what acts are covered? If that court rules for full immunity, can Trump claim immunity for the other cases, and for the past judgements against him since he became president? If the court rules for no immunity, can Obama and Biden be charged with perjury for any lies they told while president and vice president? Inquiring minds want to know. When did Obama or Biden ever say anything under oath while in office? Not to this discussion but Obama did. The Q, for me, then might be, does one have to take the Oath of office and correctly before one technically holds the office, as described in Article II, Section 1, Clause 8? Most will suggest the Oath comes first. But GW took the office first by 14 months and Obama did it incorrectly the first time and the Oath had to be correctly administered the next day.
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Post by canefan on Apr 26, 2024 15:18:49 GMT -5
If the United States Supreme Court sends the presidential immunity case back to the circuit court, what effect will that have on the other politically motivated "trials" against Trump? Also, if the circuit court rules for partial immunity, will that court have to state what acts are not covered and what acts are covered? If that court rules for full immunity, can Trump claim immunity for the other cases, and for the past judgements against him since he became president? If the court rules for no immunity, can Obama and Biden be charged with perjury for any lies they told while president and vice president? Inquiring minds want to know. I would not want to be one of those deciding this issue. IMHO, no immunity at all leads to this kind of sewer politics we are experiencing now. Likewise, total immunity could easily remove some necessary caution as there are no consequences. And partial opens up a whole bag of problems. I'd say the Congress and impeachment is the answer but this would require partisan politics to be put aside.
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Post by Walter on Apr 26, 2024 15:57:29 GMT -5
If the United States Supreme Court sends the presidential immunity case back to the circuit court, what effect will that have on the other politically motivated "trials" against Trump? Also, if the circuit court rules for partial immunity, will that court have to state what acts are not covered and what acts are covered? If that court rules for full immunity, can Trump claim immunity for the other cases, and for the past judgements against him since he became president? If the court rules for no immunity, can Obama and Biden be charged with perjury for any lies they told while president and vice president? Inquiring minds want to know. I would not want to be one of those deciding this issue. IMHO, no immunity at all leads to this kind of sewer politics we are experiencing now. Likewise, total immunity could easily remove some necessary caution as there are no consequences. And partial opens up a whole bag of problems. I'd say the Congress and impeachment is the answer but this would require partisan politics to be put aside. If Trump is convicted, it will not be sewer politics. It will be justice delivered. I have no problem whatsoever with prosecuting a former POTUS for alleged crimes committed while in office. If Trump wins and wants to start revenge prosecutions against Biden, he is free to try it. I fully believe in our system of justice to correctly rule on any case that is brought and I find it strange that you do not think that the courts are up to the task and that somehow the justice system is to be feared.
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Post by AlaCowboy on Apr 26, 2024 16:22:41 GMT -5
Seldom in history has there ever been a bigger elephant in the room than the question of succeeding administrations weaponizing courts against a predecessor. Imagine Jimmy Carter on the stand answering questions about his crooked White House staff.
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Post by Walter on Apr 26, 2024 16:31:16 GMT -5
Seldom in history has there ever been a bigger elephant in the room than the question of succeeding administrations weaponizing courts against a predecessor. Imagine Jimmy Carter on the stand answering questions about his crooked White House staff.Not sure to whom you are referring to on his staff, but what would been wrong with that? After he leaves office, he is just another slob on the bus like the rest of us. If he had testimony that might help put away a crook, it is his duty to testify.
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Post by canefan on Apr 26, 2024 17:02:14 GMT -5
I would not want to be one of those deciding this issue. IMHO, no immunity at all leads to this kind of sewer politics we are experiencing now. Likewise, total immunity could easily remove some necessary caution as there are no consequences. And partial opens up a whole bag of problems. I'd say the Congress and impeachment is the answer but this would require partisan politics to be put aside. If Trump is convicted, it will not be sewer politics. It will be justice delivered. I have no problem whatsoever with prosecuting a former POTUS for alleged crimes committed while in office. If Trump wins and wants to start revenge prosecutions against Biden, he is free to try it. I fully believe in our system of justice to correctly rule on any case that is brought and I find it strange that you do not think that the courts are up to the task and that somehow the justice system is to be feared. That is because I have a ton of experience dealing with the legal system. We will never agree on this case. I will forever believe it's total BS and purely political. And I don't believe any republican politician can get a fair trial in NYC.
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Post by daleko on Apr 26, 2024 17:11:14 GMT -5
Imagine Jimmy Carter on the stand answering questions about his crooked White House staff. Not sure to whom you are referring to on his staff, but what would been wrong with that? After he leaves office, he is just another slob on the bus like the rest of us. If he had testimony that might help put away a crook, it is his duty to testify. Not always.
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Post by Walter on Apr 26, 2024 18:13:00 GMT -5
If Trump is convicted, it will not be sewer politics. It will be justice delivered. I have no problem whatsoever with prosecuting a former POTUS for alleged crimes committed while in office. If Trump wins and wants to start revenge prosecutions against Biden, he is free to try it. I fully believe in our system of justice to correctly rule on any case that is brought and I find it strange that you do not think that the courts are up to the task and that somehow the justice system is to be feared. That is because I have a ton of experience dealing with the legal system. We will never agree on this case. I will forever believe it's total BS and purely political. And I don't believe any republican politician can get a fair trial in NYC. We aren't discussing Trump. We are discussing POTUS immunity 5, 10, 20 years from now. Put aside your fealty to OJ, and ponder a Democrat POTUS you perhaps despise, running the executive branch, knowing that if he does it the right way, he can get away with just about any crime he can think up including selling classified documents, theft, murder; you name it. And as long as he has support in Congress to avoid impeachment, he can do it all day every day for 4 years. Are you sure you want to go there?
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Post by Panama pfRedd on Apr 26, 2024 18:47:26 GMT -5
That is because I have a ton of experience dealing with the legal system. We will never agree on this case. I will forever believe it's total BS and purely political. And I don't believe any republican politician can get a fair trial in NYC. We aren't discussing Trump. We are discussing POTUS immunity 5, 10, 20 years from now. Put aside your fealty to OJ, and ponder a Democrat POTUS you perhaps despise, running the executive branch, knowing that if he does it the right way, he can get away with just about any crime he can think up including selling classified documents, theft, murder; you name it. And as long as he has support in Congress to avoid impeachment, he can do it all day every day for 4 years. Are you sure you want to go there? You're an hysterical ass hole.
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Post by canefan on Apr 26, 2024 20:28:38 GMT -5
That is because I have a ton of experience dealing with the legal system. We will never agree on this case. I will forever believe it's total BS and purely political. And I don't believe any republican politician can get a fair trial in NYC. We aren't discussing Trump. We are discussing POTUS immunity 5, 10, 20 years from now. Put aside your fealty to OJ, and ponder a Democrat POTUS you perhaps despise, running the executive branch, knowing that if he does it the right way, he can get away with just about any crime he can think up including selling classified documents, theft, murder; you name it. And as long as he has support in Congress to avoid impeachment, he can do it all day every day for 4 years. Are you sure you want to go there? Did you not read what I wrote: " I'd say the Congress and impeachment is the answer but this would require partisan politics to be put aside.That's the fly in the soup. Dems won't impeach a Democrat and Repubs won't impeach a Repub. Doesn't seem to matter what they do. Perhaps change the impeachment process. Instead of having the Senate do the trial, take it outside to the people in the form of a jury trial, have jury selection, the whole nine yards.
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Post by Walter on Apr 26, 2024 22:21:21 GMT -5
We aren't discussing Trump. We are discussing POTUS immunity 5, 10, 20 years from now. Put aside your fealty to OJ, and ponder a Democrat POTUS you perhaps despise, running the executive branch, knowing that if he does it the right way, he can get away with just about any crime he can think up including selling classified documents, theft, murder; you name it. And as long as he has support in Congress to avoid impeachment, he can do it all day every day for 4 years. Are you sure you want to go there? Did you not read what I wrote: " I'd say the Congress and impeachment is the answer but this would require partisan politics to be put aside.That's the fly in the soup. Dems won't impeach a Democrat and Repubs won't impeach a Repub. Doesn't seem to matter what they do. Perhaps change the impeachment process. Instead of having the Senate do the trial, take it outside to the people in the form of a jury trial, have jury selection, the whole nine yards. Rather than that, why not just hang the sword over the POTUS and use it to ensure he doesn't F-up and go south?
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Post by arkon on Apr 27, 2024 8:51:23 GMT -5
If the United States Supreme Court sends the presidential immunity case back to the circuit court, what effect will that have on the other politically motivated "trials" against Trump? Also, if the circuit court rules for partial immunity, will that court have to state what acts are not covered and what acts are covered? If that court rules for full immunity, can Trump claim immunity for the other cases, and for the past judgements against him since he became president? If the court rules for no immunity, can Obama and Biden be charged with perjury for any lies they told while president and vice president? Inquiring minds want to know. I would not want to be one of those deciding this issue. IMHO, no immunity at all leads to this kind of sewer politics we are experiencing now. Likewise, total immunity could easily remove some necessary caution as there are no consequences. And partial opens up a whole bag of problems. I'd say the Congress and impeachment is the answer but this would require partisan politics to be put aside. Since partisan politics being put aside is a virtual impossibility, screw congress and impeachment. Ultimately, it's simple. A prez should have immunity for legitimate, official presidential actions and duties. Calling Georgia's SOS to persuade him to "find" 11thousand (nonexistent) votes doesn't qualify. Retaining (and hiding) govt documents, especially after being ordered by a court to return them, doesn't qualify.
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Post by oujour76 on Apr 27, 2024 9:29:16 GMT -5
I would not want to be one of those deciding this issue. IMHO, no immunity at all leads to this kind of sewer politics we are experiencing now. Likewise, total immunity could easily remove some necessary caution as there are no consequences. And partial opens up a whole bag of problems. I'd say the Congress and impeachment is the answer but this would require partisan politics to be put aside. Since partisan politics being put aside is a virtual impossibility, screw congress and impeachment. Ultimately, it's simple. A prez should have immunity for legitimate, official presidential actions and duties. Calling Georgia's SOS to persuade him to "find" 11thousand (nonexistent) votes doesn't qualify. Retaining (and hiding) govt documents, especially after being ordered by a court to return them, doesn't qualify. I think he’s got big problems with the Florida case. Haven’t heard of an immunity claim there, which is moot anyway as he was already out of office.
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Post by canefan on Apr 27, 2024 9:57:16 GMT -5
Did you not read what I wrote: " I'd say the Congress and impeachment is the answer but this would require partisan politics to be put aside.That's the fly in the soup. Dems won't impeach a Democrat and Repubs won't impeach a Repub. Doesn't seem to matter what they do. Perhaps change the impeachment process. Instead of having the Senate do the trial, take it outside to the people in the form of a jury trial, have jury selection, the whole nine yards. Rather than that, why not just hang the sword over the POTUS and use it to ensure he doesn't F-up and go south? By this you mean partial immunity? The problem with that is what we are seeing now. You have non-federal level officers like Fani Willis, Letitia James, and Alvin Bragg who can trump up charges to try to make a name for themselves. I know you will disagree with these specific examples but you have to admit option gives this potential. Why is that a problem? It creates a fear of later prosecution and could force a president to not proceed somewhere when he really should. I don't want to put a president in the position of worrying about his decisions and creating indecision when we need him to be decisive.
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Post by canefan on Apr 27, 2024 10:04:58 GMT -5
I would not want to be one of those deciding this issue. IMHO, no immunity at all leads to this kind of sewer politics we are experiencing now. Likewise, total immunity could easily remove some necessary caution as there are no consequences. And partial opens up a whole bag of problems. I'd say the Congress and impeachment is the answer but this would require partisan politics to be put aside. Since partisan politics being put aside is a virtual impossibility, screw congress and impeachment. Ultimately, it's simple. A prez should have immunity for legitimate, official presidential actions and duties. Calling Georgia's SOS to persuade him to "find" 11thousand (nonexistent) votes doesn't qualify. Retaining (and hiding) govt documents, especially after being ordered by a court to return them, doesn't qualify. But then the blind ambition problem arises. Who decides if the president's call is asking the SOS to create the votes he needs or is it to ask them to continue until the votes he needs are discovered? Who determines if he is asking them to cheat or to be thorough? This option leaves a president, any president, too exposed.
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