interesting breakdown of referring in the big ten

[snap infraction]

blog.minitab.com/blog/the-statistics-game/are-big-10-basketball-referees-biased-towards-winning-teams

lots of debate among the penn state internet about some of the ways penn state has been losing some of these painfully close big ten conference games.  this play vine.co/v/OPPgUgYbzgt  was called an offensive foul on penn state, giving maryland possession late in a crucial part of the game.  it was a bit of a tipping point and psu head coach pat chambers flipped out after the game and received a 10k fine today.  

i think some of the underlying logic used in this analysis is flawed.  for example, i think if a team enters a game with a 60% chance of winning, and they are tied with less than a few minutes left in the game...they will still have a 60% chance of winning.  i don't buy the 50% number.

however, i will whole absolutely agree that refs in the big ten are intimidated by coaches like izzo, ryan and matta.  i do think when all things are even, refs default back to a mindset that a specific team entering the game is supposed to win and this impacts how games are called.   

[oujour76]

Feb 17, 2015 12:12:45 GMT -5 snap infraction said:

blog.minitab.com/blog/the-statistics-game/are-big-10-basketball-referees-biased-towards-winning-teams

lots of debate among the penn state internet about some of the ways penn state has been losing some of these painfully close big ten conference games.  this play https://vine.co/v/OPPgUgYbzgt was called an offensive foul on penn state, giving maryland possession late in a crucial part of the game.  it was a bit of a tipping point and psu head coach pat chambers flipped out after the game and received a 10k fine today.  

i think some of the underlying logic used in this analysis is flawed.  for example, i think if a team enters a game with a 60% chance of winning, and they are tied with less than a few minutes left in the game...they will still have a 60% chance of winning.  i don't buy the 50% number.

however, i will whole absolutely agree that refs in the big ten are intimidated by coaches like izzo, ryan and matta.  i do think when all things are even, refs default back to a mindset that a specific team entering the game is supposed to win and this impacts how games are called.   

What's your beef? That is clearly a foul on the guy getting pulled to the floor.

[mscott59]

Feb 17, 2015 12:12:45 GMT -5 snap infraction said:

blog.minitab.com/blog/the-statistics-game/are-big-10-basketball-referees-biased-towards-winning-teams

lots of debate among the penn state internet about some of the ways penn state has been losing some of these painfully close big ten conference games.  this play https://vine.co/v/OPPgUgYbzgt was called an offensive foul on penn state, giving maryland possession late in a crucial part of the game.  it was a bit of a tipping point and psu head coach pat chambers flipped out after the game and received a 10k fine today.  

i think some of the underlying logic used in this analysis is flawed.  for example, i think if a team enters a game with a 60% chance of winning, and they are tied with less than a few minutes left in the game...they will still have a 60% chance of winning.  i don't buy the 50% number.

however, i will whole absolutely agree that refs in the big ten are intimidated by coaches like izzo, ryan and matta.  i do think when all things are even, refs default back to a mindset that a specific team entering the game is supposed to win and this impacts how games are called.   

1. that was an awful call. simply awful. no getting around that.
2. saying that psu is 3-10 in the league so far this year mainly, or even partly, because of spotty officiating is, in a word, laughable.
3. refs don't work for just one league anymore, and haven't for years. so to say that it's the heavyweight big 10 coaches who are intimidating these guys into favorable calls? i'm not going to say it never happens, but if that's really true, why do izzo and matta already have 9 league losses between them this year? the refs working those games must not know what they're supposed to be calling. osu's 5 league losses have been by 6, 3, 9, 2 and 3 points. psu is not the only team victimized by close losses this season. 1 or 2 calls can tip an even game, but that also means 1 or 2 mistakes can as well, or 1 or 2 missed shots or missed ft's.
4. in the maryland-psu game, the nitts had 21 fouls called against them. the terps had 18. not a big difference.

[AlaCowboy]

I don't know what foul was called, but it looks as though the guy in white was moving into the guy in black, and hooked his left arm with his right arm. Is there a view from the other side to dispute or confirm this theory?

[snap infraction]

Feb 17, 2015 12:55:12 GMT -5 mscott59 said:

Feb 17, 2015 12:12:45 GMT -5 snap infraction said:

blog.minitab.com/blog/the-statistics-game/are-big-10-basketball-referees-biased-towards-winning-teams

lots of debate among the penn state internet about some of the ways penn state has been losing some of these painfully close big ten conference games.  this play https://vine.co/v/OPPgUgYbzgt was called an offensive foul on penn state, giving maryland possession late in a crucial part of the game.  it was a bit of a tipping point and psu head coach pat chambers flipped out after the game and received a 10k fine today.  

i think some of the underlying logic used in this analysis is flawed.  for example, i think if a team enters a game with a 60% chance of winning, and they are tied with less than a few minutes left in the game...they will still have a 60% chance of winning.  i don't buy the 50% number.

however, i will whole absolutely agree that refs in the big ten are intimidated by coaches like izzo, ryan and matta.  i do think when all things are even, refs default back to a mindset that a specific team entering the game is supposed to win and this impacts how games are called.   

1. that was an awful call. simply awful. no getting around that.
2. saying that psu is 3-10 in the league so far this year mainly, or even partly, because of spotty officiating is, in a word, laughable.
3. refs don't work for just one league anymore, and haven't for years. so to say that it's the heavyweight big 10 coaches who are intimidating these guys into favorable calls? i'm not going to say it never happens, but if that's really true, why do izzo and matta already have 9 league losses between them this year? the refs working those games must not know what they're supposed to be calling. osu's 5 league losses have been by 6, 3, 9, 2 and 3 points. psu is not the only team victimized by close losses this season. 1 or 2 calls can tip an even game, but that also means 1 or 2 mistakes can as well, or 1 or 2 missed shots or missed ft's.
4. in the maryland-psu game, the nitts had 21 fouls called against them. the terps had 18. not a big difference.

 dan dakich is ranting and getting people riled about it.  

i think chambers is more upset that newbill doesn't go to the line more often...he drives to the basket and there's always contact that's never called...i think newbill was a bit of a hot head when he first started getting significant playing time at penn state...his demeanor on the court has changed for the better but the refs don't give him the star treatment that he deserves.  

[Buckeye Dale]

After just a glance...another conspiracy against PeeSUe? The PeeSUe admin referred something to the B1G Ten and are upset their reference wasn't followed?

[daleko]

Feb 17, 2015 12:55:12 GMT -5 mscott59 said:

Feb 17, 2015 12:12:45 GMT -5 snap infraction said:

blog.minitab.com/blog/the-statistics-game/are-big-10-basketball-referees-biased-towards-winning-teams

lots of debate among the penn state internet about some of the ways penn state has been losing some of these painfully close big ten conference games.  t
 was called an offensive foul on penn state, giving maryland possession late in a crucial part of the game.  it was a bit of a tipping point and psu head coach pat chambers flipped out after the game and received a 10k fine today.  

i think some of the underlying logic used in this analysis is flawed.  for example, i think if a team enters a game with a 60% chance of winning, and they are tied with less than a few minutes left in the game...they will still have a 60% chance of winning.  i don't buy the 50% number.

however, i will whole absolutely agree that refs in the big ten are intimidated by coaches like izzo, ryan and matta.  i do think when all things are even, refs default back to a mindset that a specific team entering the game is supposed to win and this impacts how games are called.   

1. that was an awful call. simply awful. no getting around that.
2. saying that psu is 3-10 in the league so far this year mainly, or even partly, because of spotty officiating is, in a word, laughable.
3. refs don't work for just one league anymore, and haven't for years. so to say that it's the heavyweight big 10 coaches who are intimidating these guys into favorable calls? i'm not going to say it never happens, but if that's really true, why do izzo and matta already have 9 league losses between them this year? the refs working those games must not know what they're supposed to be calling. osu's 5 league losses have been by 6, 3, 9, 2 and 3 points. psu is not the only team victimized by close losses this season. 1 or 2 calls can tip an even game, but that also means 1 or 2 mistakes can as well, or 1 or 2 missed shots or missed ft's.
4. in the maryland-psu game, the nitts had 21 fouls called against them. the terps had 18. not a big difference. 

Mark, clearly it's a NCAA conspiracy that PSU is 3-10 in the league, when they should be over .500.

The question of Matta, Izzo & Ryan working the officials is really no question. Off course they do and it sometimes works. Wooden did it, McGuire did it, Knight did it. Dean Smith did it. And the pole at Duke does it. All of the great coaches did it. Those that have the seniority and are coaching pretty good teams get away with it. And that is shocking to anyone why?

Plus the fact that team A may have betters has a greater impact how the game is called.

[mscott59]

Feb 17, 2015 13:40:29 GMT -5 snap infraction said:

Feb 17, 2015 12:55:12 GMT -5 mscott59 said:

1. that was an awful call. simply awful. no getting around that.
2. saying that psu is 3-10 in the league so far this year mainly, or even partly, because of spotty officiating is, in a word, laughable.
3. refs don't work for just one league anymore, and haven't for years. so to say that it's the heavyweight big 10 coaches who are intimidating these guys into favorable calls? i'm not going to say it never happens, but if that's really true, why do izzo and matta already have 9 league losses between them this year? the refs working those games must not know what they're supposed to be calling. osu's 5 league losses have been by 6, 3, 9, 2 and 3 points. psu is not the only team victimized by close losses this season. 1 or 2 calls can tip an even game, but that also means 1 or 2 mistakes can as well, or 1 or 2 missed shots or missed ft's.
4. in the maryland-psu game, the nitts had 21 fouls called against them. the terps had 18. not a big difference.

 dan dakich is ranting and getting people riled about it.  

i think chambers is more upset that newbill doesn't go to the line more often...he drives to the basket and there's always contact that's never called...i think newbill was a bit of a hot head when he first started getting significant playing time at penn state...his demeanor on the court has changed for the better but the refs don't give him the star treatment that he deserves.  

dakish ranting doesn't necessarily equal truth. plus, i'm not sure if maryland's coach qualifies as some kind of living legend worthy of getting preferential calls down the stretch. did you know his name before this game was played? and newbill's averaging nearly 8 fta's per game. it's not like he's not getting fouls called on his defenders.

[snap infraction]

Feb 17, 2015 15:10:33 GMT -5 Buckeye Dale said:

After just a glance...another conspiracy against PeeSUe? The PeeSUe admin referred something to the B1G Ten and are upset their reference wasn't followed?

well you know...the repulsive basketball first culture at penn state creates crazy people there :-) 

[snap infraction]

Feb 17, 2015 15:32:34 GMT -5 mscott59 said:

Feb 17, 2015 13:40:29 GMT -5 snap infraction said:

 dan dakich is ranting and getting people riled about it.  

i think chambers is more upset that newbill doesn't go to the line more often...he drives to the basket and there's always contact that's never called...i think newbill was a bit of a hot head when he first started getting significant playing time at penn state...his demeanor on the court has changed for the better but the refs don't give him the star treatment that he deserves.  

dakish ranting doesn't necessarily equal truth. plus, i'm not sure if maryland's coach qualifies as some kind of living legend worthy of getting preferential calls down the stretch. did you know his name before this game was played? and newbill's averaging nearly 8 fta's per game. it's not like he's not getting fouls called on his defenders.

no the point wasn't that maryland has some sort of legendary coach (and no, i don't even remember when gary williams retired), but the fact is maryland is an established basketball program who has a won a national title more recently than any other big ten program.  the perception is that maryland is supposed to beat penn state 

[mscott59]

Feb 17, 2015 15:53:12 GMT -5 snap infraction said:

Feb 17, 2015 15:32:34 GMT -5 mscott59 said:

dakish ranting doesn't necessarily equal truth. plus, i'm not sure if maryland's coach qualifies as some kind of living legend worthy of getting preferential calls down the stretch. did you know his name before this game was played? and newbill's averaging nearly 8 fta's per game. it's not like he's not getting fouls called on his defenders.

no the point wasn't that maryland has some sort of legendary coach (and no, i don't even remember when gary williams retired), but the fact is maryland is an established basketball program who has a won a national title more recently than any other big ten program.  the perception is that maryland is supposed to beat penn state 

what was the perception when osu played psu last year? both times? and what happened? sorry... i get the fact that there are 'name' programs and there are 'no name' programs, but that doesn't win or lose games.

[snap infraction]

Feb 17, 2015 16:33:22 GMT -5 mscott59 said:

Feb 17, 2015 15:53:12 GMT -5 snap infraction said:

no the point wasn't that maryland has some sort of legendary coach (and no, i don't even remember when gary williams retired), but the fact is maryland is an established basketball program who has a won a national title more recently than any other big ten program.  the perception is that maryland is supposed to beat penn state 

what was the perception when osu played psu last year? both times? and what happened? sorry... i get the fact that there are 'name' programs and there are 'no name' programs, but that doesn't win or lose games.

i don't disagree with you.  but the reason a team loses can still be b/c they aren't as good as others but a bias towards certain programs can still exist at the same time.   

 

[daleko]

Feb 17, 2015 13:40:29 GMT -5 snap infraction said:

Feb 17, 2015 12:55:12 GMT -5 mscott59 said:

1. that was an awful call. simply awful. no getting around that.
2. saying that psu is 3-10 in the league so far this year mainly, or even partly, because of spotty officiating is, in a word, laughable.
3. refs don't work for just one league anymore, and haven't for years. so to say that it's the heavyweight big 10 coaches who are intimidating these guys into favorable calls? i'm not going to say it never happens, but if that's really true, why do izzo and matta already have 9 league losses between them this year? the refs working those games must not know what they're supposed to be calling. osu's 5 league losses have been by 6, 3, 9, 2 and 3 points. psu is not the only team victimized by close losses this season. 1 or 2 calls can tip an even game, but that also means 1 or 2 mistakes can as well, or 1 or 2 missed shots or missed ft's.
4. in the maryland-psu game, the nitts had 21 fouls called against them. the terps had 18. not a big difference.

 dan dakich is ranting and getting people riled about it.  

i think chambers is more upset that newbill doesn't go to the line more often...he drives to the basket and there's always contact that's never called...i think newbill was a bit of a hot head when he first started getting significant playing time at penn state...his demeanor on the court has changed for the better but the refs don't give him the star treatment that he deserves.  

Now the ironic part occurred last night in HV when Wisky played PSU. PSU player hooked Josh Gasser's arm and then fell to the floor. Foul of Gasser. Now later when they had a midget fronting Kaminsky, he was playing the bobble head doll act every time he bounced into Kaminski. Looking to draw a foul. Comical really.

[snap infraction]

Feb 19, 2015 12:34:58 GMT -5 daleko said:

Feb 17, 2015 13:40:29 GMT -5 snap infraction said:

 dan dakich is ranting and getting people riled about it.  

i think chambers is more upset that newbill doesn't go to the line more often...he drives to the basket and there's always contact that's never called...i think newbill was a bit of a hot head when he first started getting significant playing time at penn state...his demeanor on the court has changed for the better but the refs don't give him the star treatment that he deserves.  

Now the ironic part occurred last night in HV when Wisky played PSU. PSU player hooked Josh Gasser's arm and then fell to the floor. Foul of Gasser. Now later when they had a midget fronting Kaminsky, he was playing the bobble head doll act every time he bounced into Kaminski. Looking to draw a foul. Comical really.

i missed most of the game so i can't comment on those plays.  but if you are correct, i guess bo ryan needs to work the refs better.  

[daleko]

Feb 20, 2015 8:26:39 GMT -5 snap infraction said:

Feb 19, 2015 12:34:58 GMT -5 daleko said:

Now the ironic part occurred last night in HV when Wisky played PSU. PSU player hooked Josh Gasser's arm and then fell to the floor. Foul of Gasser. Now later when they had a midget fronting Kaminsky, he was playing the bobble head doll act every time he bounced into Kaminski. Looking to draw a foul. Comical really.

i missed most of the game so i can't comment on those plays.  but if you are correct, i guess bo ryan needs to work the refs better.  

He was tryen. The bobble head kid never drew a foul. A cpl of times even the zebras were smiling. All in all a good game by PSU. Newbill is a beast one on one and Wisky played him straight up.