some usc documents revealed

[Walter]

Here's my favorite part of this so far:

“It is unfortunate that Mr. McNair’s unfounded claims have resulted in an attack on the character and integrity of dedicated individual committee members and the overall infractions process,” the NCAA’s statement said.

I'll bet even the guy who wrote that is laughing.

[snap infraction]

Mar 28, 2015 18:27:35 GMT -5 Walter said:

Here's my favorite part of this so far:

“It is unfortunate that Mr. McNair’s unfounded claims have resulted in an attack on the character and integrity of dedicated individual committee members and the overall infractions process,” the NCAA’s statement said.

I'll bet even the guy who wrote that is laughing.

the guy who wrote that was probably bob williams....he's the ncaa vp of communications.  twitter.com/ncaabob  if you want to send a message of appreciation for his work.  

[AlaCowboy]

Mar 25, 2015 13:38:54 GMT -5 snap infraction said:

Mar 25, 2015 11:52:50 GMT -5 oujour76 said:

Got it. And, just fwiw...I'm thinking that you're not the most unbiased person in the room when it comes to discussing the NCAA. Just sayin....

i'm bias?  just b/c i think the ncaa is an archaic, misguided, exploitative, self righteous power mongering organization that makes shit up to in order to protect their self appointed status as guardians of amateur athletics? 

The NCAA was created by the universities and the only power they have is what is given to them by the universities. So if you have criticism of the NCAA direct it to Penn State, Valdosta State, North Dakota State, et al. They are the NCAA.

[AlaCowboy]

Mar 26, 2015 7:42:55 GMT -5 snap infraction said:

Mar 25, 2015 16:10:22 GMT -5 mscott59 said:

everything you write after your first sentence actually makes some sense. but the words 'title ix' in your first sentence make everything behind it virtually impossible i think.

i don't know if virtually impossible is accurate.  the collusion between the nfl/nba and the ncaa is not a title ix issue.  i get the nba/nfl gets a free development system and the ncaa creates stars which builds excitement in the draft.  and i get the ncaa gets a better product to sell to advertisers.  but the whole thing seems unfair to the athlete.  i honestly don't know how draft restriction is legal.  it just seems criminal to deny someone the ability to play professional if they have the ability to do so. 

as for the other title ix stuff...it's a complicated law that i don't understand.  but if the ncaa passes a rule that says "all student athletes from revenue generating sports are to receive x percentange amount of the total tv, licensing and ticket sales revenue generated" wouldn't that be in compliance with title ix?  especially if that percentage was equal among all revenue generating sports?  if women's basketball generated $100,000 in revenue and men's basketball generated $1,000,000 but the % the athlete received back are the same, isn't that equality?  

So if womens tennis sells a dozen $5 tickets to people it becomes a "revenue-generating" sport. Same for swimming and diving, water polo, and the 94 other sports major universities field. None make a profit, but they generate revenue.

[daleko]

Mar 25, 2015 15:05:23 GMT -5 snap infraction said:

Mar 25, 2015 14:19:05 GMT -5 mscott59 said:

so, i'll ask again. as bad and inconsistent as the ncaa is, what would you replace it with? or would you simply disband it and let all the schools 'really' govern themselves?

tough to answer this.  i don't have the answers.  the ncaa doesn't necessarily need to disband...but it could def under massive transformation...here's what i'd do....and lets ignore title ix stuff for now b/c that complicates things. 

it's time to acknowledge that there are two types of athletes who play college sports....those with ambition to play sports at a higher level  and those without a professional sports future.  however, under the current system, both types get paid the same (free education) no matter their worth in the open market. 

the ncaa works for  student athletes with no professional sports future which is probably 95% or more of student athletes.  the market (free education) pays them more than their worth in the market.   

it doesn't work for those who are compensated below their market value.  for student athletes of revenue generating sports...pay them above a free education.  but everyone gets paid the same.  cap the amount they receive at some % of the revenue brought in by the conference...similar to the salary cap in the nfl.  except...they can't touch this money until the graduate or leave school.  it can go into some sort of trust.  this money is forfeited due to any academic violation or some sort of other conviction.  all the forfeited goes into a general student athlete fund.  

also...allow a player to capitalize financially on their likeness.  allow a player to sell their autograph or make some sort of personal appearance.  but cap the amount they can get paid for this.  and put this in the same trust.  the cap will keep the creepy boosters from giving 17 year olds millions of dollars.  

ideally i would love every human to get paid their market value.  but it's not feasible.  we have minimum wage in the real world.  minimum wage in college sports could be the free scholarship.  other sports like the nfl and the nba have salary caps.  so we introduce a salary cap into college sports.  

also the collusion between the nfl/nba and college sports needs to end right now.  let a 17 year jump to the nba and play in the d-league.  let a 17 year old play on an nfl scout team.  it's criminal that these organizations collude to keep profits higher at a 17 year olds expense.  this would allow anyone at any age the opportunity to get paid what their worth.  

as for enforcement against violations?  the ncaa needs to outsource this function to actual competent people.  there's too much of a conflict of interest with the ncaa's own personnel trying to keep their organization relevant publicly.  plus, it's obvious that those investigating are not as intelligent as the people they are investigating.  

You can't ignore Title IX. The collusion you speak of extends a bit beyond the 17 yr old. With the current CBAs, and I'm speaking to Pro FB, the delay of an athlete going into the NFL, allows the NFL to utilize that athlete at his physical peak before he is allowed to trade on his experience in FA. Delaying his entry into the NFL benefits all parties. The athlete physically matures (again I'm speaking to FB which physically takes a greater toll on the body than any other money sport, imo) from 17-22, the school benefits financially and the NFL team gets to use him at his physical peak less costly than they would otherwise have to pay if there was no draft. It's why MLB went to the draft back in the 60s. If you want to point a finger, point at the draft, imo.

[daleko]

Apr 3, 2015 22:44:34 GMT -5 AlaCowboy said:

Mar 25, 2015 13:38:54 GMT -5 snap infraction said:

i'm bias?  just b/c i think the ncaa is an archaic, misguided, exploitative, self righteous power mongering organization that makes shit up to in order to protect their self appointed status as guardians of amateur athletics? 

The NCAA was created by the universities and the only power they have is what is given to them by the universities. So if you have criticism of the NCAA direct it to Penn State, Valdosta State, North Dakota State, et al. They are the NCAA.

Went down that path with him years ago. That truth is lost on many.

[snap infraction]

Apr 4, 2015 12:06:53 GMT -5 daleko said:

Apr 3, 2015 22:44:34 GMT -5 AlaCowboy said:

The NCAA was created by the universities and the only power they have is what is given to them by the universities. So if you have criticism of the NCAA direct it to Penn State, Valdosta State, North Dakota State, et al. They are the NCAA.

Went down that path with him years ago. That truth is lost on many.

obviously we know the ncaa was created and is currently composed of its member schools.  but it's not run by the athletic departments.  it's run by clueless egghead university presidents who only care about their athletic depts making money while not embarrassing the university.  

[snap infraction]

Apr 3, 2015 22:54:41 GMT -5 AlaCowboy said:

Mar 26, 2015 7:42:55 GMT -5 snap infraction said:

i don't know if virtually impossible is accurate.  the collusion between the nfl/nba and the ncaa is not a title ix issue.  i get the nba/nfl gets a free development system and the ncaa creates stars which builds excitement in the draft.  and i get the ncaa gets a better product to sell to advertisers.  but the whole thing seems unfair to the athlete.  i honestly don't know how draft restriction is legal.  it just seems criminal to deny someone the ability to play professional if they have the ability to do so. 

as for the other title ix stuff...it's a complicated law that i don't understand.  but if the ncaa passes a rule that says "all student athletes from revenue generating sports are to receive x percentange amount of the total tv, licensing and ticket sales revenue generated" wouldn't that be in compliance with title ix?  especially if that percentage was equal among all revenue generating sports?  if women's basketball generated $100,000 in revenue and men's basketball generated $1,000,000 but the % the athlete received back are the same, isn't that equality?  

So if womens tennis sells a dozen $5 tickets to people it becomes a "revenue-generating" sport. Same for swimming and diving, water polo, and the 94 other sports major universities field. None make a profit, but they generate revenue.

i go both ways on this.  if someone pays $5 to watch a student athlete play tennis, then she should be entitled to a small percentage of that revenue.  but at the same time, like you said, this would be an added expense on the budget that already operates in the red.  and i think that same tennis player is already benefiting from the free education. 

[daleko]

Apr 6, 2015 7:48:35 GMT -5 snap infraction said:

Apr 3, 2015 22:54:41 GMT -5 AlaCowboy said:

i go both ways on this.  if someone pays $5 to watch a student athlete play tennis, then she should be entitled to a small percentage of that revenue.  but at the same time, like you said, this would be an added expense on the budget that already operates in the red.  and i think that same tennis player is already benefiting from the free education. 

Who does not benefit, in some fashion, from a free college edu, if they choose to complete it?