ARod

[canefan]

Well, it looks like ARod is about to pass Willie Mays at 660 HR's, but he has a ways to go to catch Bonds at 762. He will be 40 years old July 27 and the most anyone has ever hit over the age of 40 is Bonds at 79, followed by Fisk at 72, Darrell Evans at 60 and Winfield at 59. ARod has 4 so far this year. To beat Bonds he has to get to 684 before the end of July, or 26 more in the next three months. Then 78 more and he has the record. Can he do it?

[mscott59]

Apr 24, 2015 10:04:09 GMT -5 canefan said:

Well, it looks like ARod is about to pass Willie Mays at 660 HR's, but he has a ways to go to catch Bonds at 762. He will be 40 years old July 27 and the most anyone has ever hit over the age of 40 is Bonds at 79, followed by Fisk at 72, Darrell Evans at 60 and Winfield at 59. ARod has 4 so far this year. To beat Bonds he has to get to 684 before the end of July, or 26 more in the next three months. Then 78 more and he has the record. Can he do it?

so many variables there in terms of pitching competition, conditions, smaller ballparks, etc, as well as better training, diet, etc. but an athletes body/reflexes/reaction time after 40 on the whole worsen exponentially. odds would say no. maybe alex can accomplish it w/o the help he's seemed to need to lean on for most of his career, but i wouldn't bet on it, especially once the dog days hit and the wear and tear of a season start showing up.

[canefan]

Apr 24, 2015 10:23:15 GMT -5 mscott59 said:

Apr 24, 2015 10:04:09 GMT -5 canefan said:

Well, it looks like ARod is about to pass Willie Mays at 660 HR's, but he has a ways to go to catch Bonds at 762. He will be 40 years old July 27 and the most anyone has ever hit over the age of 40 is Bonds at 79, followed by Fisk at 72, Darrell Evans at 60 and Winfield at 59. ARod has 4 so far this year. To beat Bonds he has to get to 684 before the end of July, or 26 more in the next three months. Then 78 more and he has the record. Can he do it?

so many variables there in terms of pitching competition, conditions, smaller ballparks, etc, as well as better training, diet, etc. but an athletes body/reflexes/reaction time after 40 on the whole worsen exponentially. odds would say no. maybe alex can accomplish it w/o the help he's seemed to need to lean on for most of his career, but i wouldn't bet on it, especially once the dog days hit and the wear and tear of a season start showing up.

I think it's going to be interesting. I can see him hitting 35 or so this year after having an entire year off. He should be pretty rested and strong. Seems to keep himself in great shape. As long as he can maintain his bat speed. I'd rather see Alex with the record than Bonds.

[daleko]

Apr 24, 2015 10:04:09 GMT -5 canefan said:

Well, it looks like ARod is about to pass Willie Mays at 660 HR's, but he has a ways to go to catch Bonds at 762. He will be 40 years old July 27 and the most anyone has ever hit over the age of 40 is Bonds at 79, followed by Fisk at 72, Darrell Evans at 60 and Winfield at 59. ARod has 4 so far this year. To beat Bonds he has to get to 684 before the end of July, or 26 more in the next three months. Then 78 more and he has the record. Can he do it?

I'd guess no as most don't want to change what they do as they age up or have the energy to do what needs to be done. Making the incremental physical loss smaller than it otherwise might be.  Eventually it's an injury that does most in as you age. He'll tear something or blow up a joint. 

BUT there are things he can do to help that include non traditional, for baseball anyway, reaction training. For me, that is the first thing to go. Then there is reviewing the list of banned sups to see if there is a sup that isn't. AND I'm not talking about muscle boosting products but sups that improve the brain's firing power which might help retard the eventual depreciation of his reaction time. Like maybe an Alpha lipoic acid sup or maybe NAC. Add in current thoughts on maintaining vision acuteness through vits and sups. Also add in more yoga/tia chi to maintain flexibility, maybe swimming. And do all of that while trying to maintain strength and play BB.

Essentially what I'm suggesting is he'll have to do a lot of work off the field yr round other than just strength training and traditional BB stuff. Most might not want to put in the effort. He might have a motivation.  Breaking the record will have to be his 365 X 24 job for the next 4 yrs. You can't beat Father Time but you might be able to play to a tie for awhile. If he has the right genes for a bit longer. 

[oujour76]

Apr 24, 2015 16:56:36 GMT -5 daleko said:

Apr 24, 2015 10:04:09 GMT -5 canefan said:

Well, it looks like ARod is about to pass Willie Mays at 660 HR's, but he has a ways to go to catch Bonds at 762. He will be 40 years old July 27 and the most anyone has ever hit over the age of 40 is Bonds at 79, followed by Fisk at 72, Darrell Evans at 60 and Winfield at 59. ARod has 4 so far this year. To beat Bonds he has to get to 684 before the end of July, or 26 more in the next three months. Then 78 more and he has the record. Can he do it?

I'd guess no as most don't want to change what they do as they age up or have the energy to do what needs to be done. Making the incremental physical loss smaller than it otherwise might be.  Eventually it's an injury that does most in as you age. He'll tear something or blow up a joint. 

BUT there are things he can do to help that include non traditional, for baseball anyway, reaction training. For me, that is the first thing to go. Then there is reviewing the list of banned sups to see if there is a sup that isn't. AND I'm not talking about muscle boosting products but sups that improve the brain's firing power which might help retard the eventual depreciation of his reaction time. Like maybe an Alpha lipoic acid sup or maybe NAC. Add in current thoughts on maintaining vision acuteness through vits and sups. Also add in more yoga/tia chi to maintain flexibility, maybe swimming. And do all of that while trying to maintain strength and play BB.

Essentially what I'm suggesting is he'll have to do a lot of work off the field yr round other than just strength training and traditional BB stuff. Most might not want to put in the effort. He might have a motivation.  Breaking the record will have to be his 365 X 24 job for the next 4 yrs. You can't beat Father Time but you might be able to play to a tie for awhile. If he has the right genes for a bit longer. 

AFAIC, Hank Aaron at 755 is the all-time HR leader in MLB.

Barry Bonds is a sham and ARod juiced for nearly his entire career. Both had/have HOF talent to be sure, but neither would have come within a mile of Aaron without PED's.

[daleko]

Apr 24, 2015 17:08:18 GMT -5 oujour76 said:

Apr 24, 2015 16:56:36 GMT -5 daleko said:

I'd guess no as most don't want to change what they do as they age up or have the energy to do what needs to be done. Making the incremental physical loss smaller than it otherwise might be.  Eventually it's an injury that does most in as you age. He'll tear something or blow up a joint. 

BUT there are things he can do to help that include non traditional, for baseball anyway, reaction training. For me, that is the first thing to go. Then there is reviewing the list of banned sups to see if there is a sup that isn't. AND I'm not talking about muscle boosting products but sups that improve the brain's firing power which might help retard the eventual depreciation of his reaction time. Like maybe an Alpha lipoic acid sup or maybe NAC. Add in current thoughts on maintaining vision acuteness through vits and sups. Also add in more yoga/tia chi to maintain flexibility, maybe swimming. And do all of that while trying to maintain strength and play BB.

Essentially what I'm suggesting is he'll have to do a lot of work off the field yr round other than just strength training and traditional BB stuff. Most might not want to put in the effort. He might have a motivation.  Breaking the record will have to be his 365 X 24 job for the next 4 yrs. You can't beat Father Time but you might be able to play to a tie for awhile. If he has the right genes for a bit longer. 

AFAIC, Hank Aaron at 755 is the all-time HR leader in MLB.

Barry Bonds is a sham and ARod juiced for nearly his entire career. Both had/have HOF talent to be sure, but neither would have come within a mile of Aaron without PED's.

Bonds never would have. He didn't have the frame. Just look at his pics at Pitt V SF. 

[canefan]

I have mixed feelings about steroids and power hitters. You still have to see the ball, hit the ball and you have to square it up and hit it hard. Steroids may help that fly ball to the warning track get a few rows deep but I've never been convinced that they help put the bat on the ball.

[oujour76]

Apr 24, 2015 17:32:23 GMT -5 daleko said:

Apr 24, 2015 17:08:18 GMT -5 oujour76 said:

AFAIC, Hank Aaron at 755 is the all-time HR leader in MLB.

Barry Bonds is a sham and ARod juiced for nearly his entire career. Both had/have HOF talent to be sure, but neither would have come within a mile of Aaron without PED's.

Bonds never would have. He didn't have the frame. Just look at his pics at Pitt V SF. 

Agreed about Bonds. IMO, without the juicing, ARod would be about a 550 HR guy in his career. Very good, but still way off from Aaron. JMO.

[oujour76]

Apr 24, 2015 18:35:26 GMT -5 canefan said:

I have mixed feelings about steroids and power hitters. You still have to see the ball, hit the ball and you have to square it up and hit it hard. Steroids may help that fly ball to the warning track get a few rows deep but I've never been convinced that they help put the bat on the ball.

Well, since baseball came up with a real drug policy back in 2008, you don't see those big home run totals any longer. 50 home runs in a season used to be a big deal....from 1920-94 it was done 18 times by 11 players. From 1995-2007, it was done 23 times by 15 players. Since 2008, it's only been done twice. I don't think that is a coincidence.

[daleko]

Apr 24, 2015 18:35:26 GMT -5 canefan said:

I have mixed feelings about steroids and power hitters. You still have to see the ball, hit the ball and you have to square it up and hit it hard. Steroids may help that fly ball to the warning track get a few rows deep but I've never been convinced that they help put the bat on the ball.

Supposedly the drug that really helps with hand-eye coordination is amphetamine. I'm guessing that with the Bonds of this world, those that are genetically gifted, when you add PEDs they can take that natural gift to levels never seen before. Those with lesser talents improve but not enough to make them all world. I wouldn't be surprised if most at the MLB level have an above average eye/hand to begin with.

[canefan]

Daleko and Oujour both make good points. I am not certain I can see a connection between amphetamine and hand eye coordination. I think Dal might be closest, noting to be a big league hitter you have to have really good hand eye coordination to start with. I can see roids improving bat speed, which is probably the most important factor for a power hitter. I remember reading a story about George Brett the year he hit .390. At the time of the story, in SI I think, he was up around .415 late in the season and this writer went to KC to do a story on him. I've always wondered about the truthfulness of this story but this is how he reported it. They were out on a golf course on a day off. The writer was with Brett and a couple of other guys completed their foursome. The writer and Brett had hit and driven their cart on down the fairway and were waiting for the next twosome to finish and join them. The writer says Brett was sort of laying back on the cart when the golf ball hooked and was moving toward them, so he jumped to his feet, took a couple of steps, held his club like a baseball bat and with one swing met the golf ball solidly and drove it back up the course toward the point of origin. That would take some sort of amazing eyesight and coordination but the writer swore it was true. And, as I said, Brett was hitting well over .400 at the time, so I guess anything is possible. As for the drop off in home runs overall, one thing I have noticed is the number of pitchers throwing in the high 90's or even over 100mph today. Not that long ago, early to mid 1990's, when my kids were playing club ball, we would be at showcases and you would hear of a high school pitcher hitting 90 on the gun and there would be a ton of scouts present to see him. Not too many big league clubs had guys who could hit 94 or 95, maybe one or at the most two. I follow the Royals the closest and they have three or four guys who can top 100 and most of the staff can hit mid 90's. Plus the movement of some of the breaking stuff is ridiculous. I see guys throwing cutters at 97-98 mph??? Hell, a couple of their staff throw their change up at 90 mph. I use to know a former major leaguer pretty well, Paul Schaal. I asked him once years ago how he stood in against someone like Nolan Ryan and his response was that you just had to start your swing before he let go of the ball and you had to decide early on what zone you were going to swing into and hope you guessed right. I can't help but wonder if that isn't also a factor in the downswing in number of home runs today.

[oujour76]

Apr 25, 2015 14:00:45 GMT -5 canefan said:

Daleko and Oujour both make good points. I am not certain I can see a connection between amphetamine and hand eye coordination. I think Dal might be closest, noting to be a big league hitter you have to have really good hand eye coordination to start with. I can see roids improving bat speed, which is probably the most important factor for a power hitter. I remember reading a story about George Brett the year he hit .390. At the time of the story, in SI I think, he was up around .415 late in the season and this writer went to KC to do a story on him. I've always wondered about the truthfulness of this story but this is how he reported it. They were out on a golf course on a day off. The writer was with Brett and a couple of other guys completed their foursome. The writer and Brett had hit and driven their cart on down the fairway and were waiting for the next twosome to finish and join them. The writer says Brett was sort of laying back on the cart when the golf ball hooked and was moving toward them, so he jumped to his feet, took a couple of steps, held his club like a baseball bat and with one swing met the golf ball solidly and drove it back up the course toward the point of origin. That would take some sort of amazing eyesight and coordination but the writer swore it was true. And, as I said, Brett was hitting well over .400 at the time, so I guess anything is possible. As for the drop off in home runs overall, one thing I have noticed is the number of pitchers throwing in the high 90's or even over 100mph today. Not that long ago, early to mid 1990's, when my kids were playing club ball, we would be at showcases and you would hear of a high school pitcher hitting 90 on the gun and there would be a ton of scouts present to see him. Not too many big league clubs had guys who could hit 94 or 95, maybe one or at the most two. I follow the Royals the closest and they have three or four guys who can top 100 and most of the staff can hit mid 90's. Plus the movement of some of the breaking stuff is ridiculous. I see guys throwing cutters at 97-98 mph??? Hell, a couple of their staff throw their change up at 90 mph. I use to know a former major leaguer pretty well, Paul Schaal. I asked him once years ago how he stood in against someone like Nolan Ryan and his response was that you just had to start your swing before he let go of the ball and you had to decide early on what zone you were going to swing into and hope you guessed right. I can't help but wonder if that isn't also a factor in the downswing in number of home runs today.

If anybody could do something like that, it would be Brett. Used to go to quite a few Royals games back in the late 70's and was always amazed at how good of a hitter Brett was.

[mscott59]

Apr 24, 2015 13:59:59 GMT -5 canefan said:

Apr 24, 2015 10:23:15 GMT -5 mscott59 said:

so many variables there in terms of pitching competition, conditions, smaller ballparks, etc, as well as better training, diet, etc. but an athletes body/reflexes/reaction time after 40 on the whole worsen exponentially. odds would say no. maybe alex can accomplish it w/o the help he's seemed to need to lean on for most of his career, but i wouldn't bet on it, especially once the dog days hit and the wear and tear of a season start showing up.

I think it's going to be interesting. I can see him hitting 35 or so this year after having an entire year off. He should be pretty rested and strong. Seems to keep himself in great shape. As long as he can maintain his bat speed. I'd rather see Alex with the record than Bonds.

are rodriguez and bonds my only 2 choices? lol. what's sad to me is that both of them, w/o the pharmaceuticals, would still have been great, potentially hof, ball players. bonds (along w/ken griffey jr) were the best 5 tool ball players i've ever seen in person (my grandpa would have said mays and mantle, but by the time i knew what i was watching both were way beyond their prime), at least prior to barry growing his body expoentially. and rodriguez had star written all over him from the time he came up playing w/junior. yet whether it was insecurities, greed, fear, or some other motivating factor, both decided they needed help. and neither distinguished themselves once it was revealed they'd used. that stains the accomplishment, especially when it's the home run record, and the effect hgh/steroids obviously has on how far a ball goes when it's hit.

[daleko]

Apr 25, 2015 14:00:45 GMT -5 canefan said:

Daleko and Oujour both make good points. I am not certain I can see a connection between amphetamine and hand eye coordination. 

Well you're the doc, Doc.  It was just something I read awhile back. Amphetamines I thought improved cognitive control, decreased reaction time, improved fatigue resistance, and increased muscle strength not size. Maybe that's what they were talking about. <Shrug> 

[canefan]

Apr 29, 2015 9:20:01 GMT -5 mscott59 said:

Apr 24, 2015 13:59:59 GMT -5 canefan said:

I think it's going to be interesting. I can see him hitting 35 or so this year after having an entire year off. He should be pretty rested and strong. Seems to keep himself in great shape. As long as he can maintain his bat speed. I'd rather see Alex with the record than Bonds.

are rodriguez and bonds my only 2 choices? lol. what's sad to me is that both of them, w/o the pharmaceuticals, would still have been great, potentially hof, ball players. bonds (along w/ken griffey jr) were the best 5 tool ball players i've ever seen in person (my grandpa would have said mays and mantle, but by the time i knew what i was watching both were way beyond their prime), at least prior to barry growing his body expoentially. and rodriguez had star written all over him from the time he came up playing w/junior. yet whether it was insecurities, greed, fear, or some other motivating factor, both decided they needed help. and neither distinguished themselves once it was revealed they'd used. that stains the accomplishment, especially when it's the home run record, and the effect hgh/steroids obviously has on how far a ball goes when it's hit.

I remember watching Mays and Mantle as a kid. Both were amazing. I never saw Mantle before the knee injury took away the elite speed that he had early in his career, but he was an incredible hitter and Mays, geezz, he could do it all. I remember watching live the famous catch he made in Candlestick leaping up against the chain link fence. Now, for me, the best five tool player I ever saw, the guy I saw do things I didn't think possible on a baseball field, was Bo. If he hadn't hurt his hip I truly believe he would have rewritten the record books of MLB. Just saw his 30 30 again the other night and you watch him do things that can't be done. The catch where he ran up and then back down the center field was. The throw, where he took a ball of the left field wall and threw a pellet to the plate to gun down Harold Reynolds, or the one handed home run in Baltimore. I was watching that game and couldn't believe it. He was in the box, turned to ask for time out, was not granted and looked back to the pitcher who was already delivering the pitch. Bo slapped out at it with just his left hand on the bat, like he was going to just flick it away, but hit it about 400 feet for a home run. I saw him hit one over 500 feet to dead center in spring training one year. Also saw him hurdle the chain link fense down the left field line at Baseball City on the dead run. He didn't make the catch but it wasn't for lack of trying. He was just an amazing talent.