Tribe... Do you start selling now?

[mscott59]

Well unless you sweep kc in the 3 game series that starts tonite, the answer might be yes. Indians have gone from 42-44 and within reach of w wild card spot to 45-52, last in the central and 14 games behind the royals. The white sox had lost 6 of 7 when they landed in Cleveland Thursday and 4 games later they left w a sweep. Another quality start was wasted. Salazar gave up 2 runs in 7 innings but his teammates had scored zero. Just 5 runs in 4 games. Friday liner had given up the same and the offense had generated the same number of runs, which seems to happen every time he's on the mound.

6 1/2 games out of the last playoff spot on the trading deadline is not insurmountable. But you also have 8 teams to jump. That's a lot. I'd hate to see anyone on this pitching staff leave (no one on offense sans kipnis, Brantley and Murphy is being looked at. Murphy is he most likely on the trading block). Kc just picked up cueto from the Reds, making them that much tougher and strengthening their only weak spot (starting pitching at he back of the rotation). It's possible he may pitch Tuesday or Wednesday in Cleveland.

[Buckeye Dale]

Jul 27, 2015 7:46:45 GMT -5 mscott59 said:

Well unless you sweep kc in the 3 game series that starts tonite, the answer might be yes. Indians have gone from 42-44 and within reach of w wild card spot to 45-52, last in the central and 14 games behind the royals. The white sox had lost 6 of 7 when they landed in Cleveland Thursday and 4 games later they left w a sweep. Another quality start was wasted. Salazar gave up 2 runs in 7 innings but his teammates had scored zero. Just 5 runs in 4 games. Friday liner had given up the same and the offense had generated the same number of runs, which seems to happen every time he's on the mound.

6 1/2 games out of the last playoff spot on the trading deadline is not insurmountable. But you also have 8 teams to jump. That's a lot. I'd hate to see anyone on this pitching staff leave (no one on offense sans kipnis, Brantley and Murphy is being looked at. Murphy is he most likely on the trading block). Kc just picked up cueto from the Reds, making them that much tougher and strengthening their only weak spot (starting pitching at he back of the rotation). It's possible he may pitch Tuesday or Wednesday in Cleveland.

Sometimes, all you can do is shake your head in wonder...this team was picked by some to be the division front runner this year.  At some point, owners/management HAS to draw a line & say "THIS is our foundation & team building spot" and quit trading away talent today for some future date that never comes.  I mean, we had that nice run in the mid to late 90s, but when you look at the talent we've either traded away or allowed to walk out the door since then, it almost becomes disgusting to look at...we need someone with the acumen to look at where we stand, not only in Cleveland but in the farm system, and make that decision.  And THEN start putting things together.  Wouldn't that be nice?

[mscott59]

Jul 27, 2015 8:17:02 GMT -5 Buckeye Dale said:

Jul 27, 2015 7:46:45 GMT -5 mscott59 said:

Well unless you sweep kc in the 3 game series that starts tonite, the answer might be yes. Indians have gone from 42-44 and within reach of w wild card spot to 45-52, last in the central and 14 games behind the royals. The white sox had lost 6 of 7 when they landed in Cleveland Thursday and 4 games later they left w a sweep. Another quality start was wasted. Salazar gave up 2 runs in 7 innings but his teammates had scored zero. Just 5 runs in 4 games. Friday liner had given up the same and the offense had generated the same number of runs, which seems to happen every time he's on the mound.

6 1/2 games out of the last playoff spot on the trading deadline is not insurmountable. But you also have 8 teams to jump. That's a lot. I'd hate to see anyone on this pitching staff leave (no one on offense sans kipnis, Brantley and Murphy is being looked at. Murphy is he most likely on the trading block). Kc just picked up cueto from the Reds, making them that much tougher and strengthening their only weak spot (starting pitching at he back of the rotation). It's possible he may pitch Tuesday or Wednesday in Cleveland.

Sometimes, all you can do is shake your head in wonder...this team was picked by some to be the division front runner this year.  At some point, owners/management HAS to draw a line & say "THIS is our foundation & team building spot" and quit trading away talent today for some future date that never comes.  I mean, we had that nice run in the mid to late 90s, but when you look at the talent we've either traded away or allowed to walk out the door since then, it almost becomes disgusting to look at...we need someone with the acumen to look at where we stand, not only in Cleveland but in the farm system, and make that decision.  And THEN start putting things together.  Wouldn't that be nice?

the 90s are a different story. how the foundation of those teams were built were classic, locking in guys like belle, baerga, alomar, lofton, thome, et al to multi-year deals. but nearly every star, once given the opportunity to leave via free agency, took it. and cleveland got nothing in return. trades at this point in the season are a roll the dice move, no doubt. in the wake of all those free agent departures, i remember the tribe trading bartolo colon, a live arm who is still pitching today 13 years later, to montreal. we got in return grady sizemore, brandon phillips and cliff lee. maybe the best trade the tribe has ever made. sin soo choo came in a mid season trade for ben broussard... that one worked. we got carlos santana for casey blake in a deal w/the dodgers. that was a good one, tho carlos better start hitting soon.

of course, you also have the back to back seasons where the indians had the cy young award winners, cliff lee and c.c. sabathia, and traded them BOTH away the year after they won. for sabathia, milwaukee sent us michael brantley (that's worked out), matt laporta (that didn't, but i still would have included him in the deal for his potential) zach johnson and rob bryson (uh, who?). for lee, the phillies sent us carlos carrasco (a pitcher who still has potential, despite giving up 5 runs in the 1st inning saturday to chicago; i read where toronto is interested in him right now), lou marson (back up catcher w/no bat), jason donald and jason knapp. unbelievable. does that mean corey kluber will soon be leaving? i hope not, but he's only making $500k, an absolute steal for a cy young winner. and he's been outstanding this year, despite going 5-11. his era is just 3.45. the tribe has scored 2 or less in something like 16 of his 20 starts this season.

this current squad has the pitching to win in the post season. maybe they'll trade a carrasco for a bat... i saw where lonnie chisenhall is being shopped. ryan raburn and brandon moss have been a couple lone bright spots offensively but both are part time players so they may be on the way out. again, i hope not... because they still have the potential to go yard and hit .275+. that would be about a 50 point improvement on 2015's current production.

[Buckeye Dale]

Jul 27, 2015 9:52:29 GMT -5 mscott59 said:

Jul 27, 2015 8:17:02 GMT -5 Buckeye Dale said:

Sometimes, all you can do is shake your head in wonder...this team was picked by some to be the division front runner this year.  At some point, owners/management HAS to draw a line & say "THIS is our foundation & team building spot" and quit trading away talent today for some future date that never comes.  I mean, we had that nice run in the mid to late 90s, but when you look at the talent we've either traded away or allowed to walk out the door since then, it almost becomes disgusting to look at...we need someone with the acumen to look at where we stand, not only in Cleveland but in the farm system, and make that decision.  And THEN start putting things together.  Wouldn't that be nice?

the 90s are a different story. how the foundation of those teams were built were classic, locking in guys like belle, baerga, alomar, lofton, thome, et al to multi-year deals. but nearly every star, once given the opportunity to leave via free agency, took it. and cleveland got nothing in return. trades at this point in the season are a roll the dice move, no doubt. in the wake of all those free agent departures, i remember the tribe trading bartolo colon, a live arm who is still pitching today 13 years later, to montreal. we got in return grady sizemore, brandon phillips and cliff lee. maybe the best trade the tribe has ever made. sin soo choo came in a mid season trade for ben broussard... that one worked. we got carlos santana for casey blake in a deal w/the dodgers. that was a good one, tho carlos better start hitting soon.

of course, you also have the back to back seasons where the indians had the cy young award winners, cliff lee and c.c. sabathia, and traded them BOTH away the year after they won. for sabathia, milwaukee sent us michael brantley (that's worked out), matt laporta (that didn't, but i still would have included him in the deal for his potential) zach johnson and rob bryson (uh, who?). for lee, the phillies sent us carlos carrasco (a pitcher who still has potential, despite giving up 5 runs in the 1st inning saturday to chicago; i read where toronto is interested in him right now), lou marson (back up catcher w/no bat), jason donald and jason knapp. unbelievable. does that mean corey kluber will soon be leaving? i hope not, but he's only making $500k, an absolute steal for a cy young winner. and he's been outstanding this year, despite going 5-11. his era is just 3.45. the tribe has scored 2 or less in something like 16 of his 20 starts this season.

this current squad has the pitching to win in the post season. maybe they'll trade a carrasco for a bat... i saw where lonnie chisenhall is being shopped. ryan raburn and brandon moss have been a couple lone bright spots offensively but both are part time players so they may be on the way out. again, i hope not... because they still have the potential to go yard and hit .275+. that would be about a 50 point improvement on 2015's current production.

Trading production for potential is always a crap shoot...I KINDA gave up on the Indians when they let Omar go...and I really haven't followed ANY professional sports teams very closely since then.  I still KINDA root for the Indians, Steelers, & Lakers & Celtics, but that's mostly habit from when I was younger.  Oh well... 

[mscott59]

Jul 27, 2015 10:58:10 GMT -5 Buckeye Dale said:

Jul 27, 2015 9:52:29 GMT -5 mscott59 said:

the 90s are a different story. how the foundation of those teams were built were classic, locking in guys like belle, baerga, alomar, lofton, thome, et al to multi-year deals. but nearly every star, once given the opportunity to leave via free agency, took it. and cleveland got nothing in return. trades at this point in the season are a roll the dice move, no doubt. in the wake of all those free agent departures, i remember the tribe trading bartolo colon, a live arm who is still pitching today 13 years later, to montreal. we got in return grady sizemore, brandon phillips and cliff lee. maybe the best trade the tribe has ever made. sin soo choo came in a mid season trade for ben broussard... that one worked. we got carlos santana for casey blake in a deal w/the dodgers. that was a good one, tho carlos better start hitting soon.

of course, you also have the back to back seasons where the indians had the cy young award winners, cliff lee and c.c. sabathia, and traded them BOTH away the year after they won. for sabathia, milwaukee sent us michael brantley (that's worked out), matt laporta (that didn't, but i still would have included him in the deal for his potential) zach johnson and rob bryson (uh, who?). for lee, the phillies sent us carlos carrasco (a pitcher who still has potential, despite giving up 5 runs in the 1st inning saturday to chicago; i read where toronto is interested in him right now), lou marson (back up catcher w/no bat), jason donald and jason knapp. unbelievable. does that mean corey kluber will soon be leaving? i hope not, but he's only making $500k, an absolute steal for a cy young winner. and he's been outstanding this year, despite going 5-11. his era is just 3.45. the tribe has scored 2 or less in something like 16 of his 20 starts this season.

this current squad has the pitching to win in the post season. maybe they'll trade a carrasco for a bat... i saw where lonnie chisenhall is being shopped. ryan raburn and brandon moss have been a couple lone bright spots offensively but both are part time players so they may be on the way out. again, i hope not... because they still have the potential to go yard and hit .275+. that would be about a 50 point improvement on 2015's current production.

Trading production for potential is always a crap shoot...I KINDA gave up on the Indians when they let Omar go...and I really haven't followed ANY professional sports teams very closely since then.  I still KINDA root for the Indians, Steelers, & Lakers & Celtics, but that's mostly habit from when I was younger.  Oh well... 

another typical home game for the tribe last night. fall behind early 3-0 (indians have been outscored 40-14 in the 1st inning at home this year... unreal) on the way to a 9-4 loss. cody anderson had his first really rocky start... gave up 7 runs in about 5 innings. cleveland is now 19-31 at progressive field this year... more home losses than any other team in the majors. still, i hope the carrasco to toronto rumors are untrue. this guy still has the stuff to be at the top of a rotation. all he needs, like any indians pitcher, is a little help from his team at the plate.

[Mickey34jb]

Jul 28, 2015 11:08:37 GMT -5 mscott59 said:

Jul 27, 2015 10:58:10 GMT -5 Buckeye Dale said:

Trading production for potential is always a crap shoot...I KINDA gave up on the Indians when they let Omar go...and I really haven't followed ANY professional sports teams very closely since then.  I still KINDA root for the Indians, Steelers, & Lakers & Celtics, but that's mostly habit from when I was younger.  Oh well... 

another typical home game for the tribe last night. fall behind early 3-0 (indians have been outscored 40-14 in the 1st inning at home this year... unreal) on the way to a 9-4 loss. cody anderson had his first really rocky start... gave up 7 runs in about 5 innings. cleveland is now 19-31 at progressive field this year... more home losses than any other team in the majors. still, i hope the carrasco to toronto rumors are untrue. this guy still has the stuff to be at the top of a rotation. all he needs, like any indians pitcher, is a little help from his team at the plate.

Swish is out and he wasnt hitting. Bourne not hitting. Santana not hitting. Tito bears the blame here to keep them in the lineup.

[daleko]

Jul 27, 2015 7:46:45 GMT -5 mscott59 said:

Well unless you sweep kc in the 3 game series that starts tonite, the answer might be yes. Indians have gone from 42-44 and within reach of w wild card spot to 45-52, last in the central and 14 games behind the royals. The white sox had lost 6 of 7 when they landed in Cleveland Thursday and 4 games later they left w a sweep. Another quality start was wasted. Salazar gave up 2 runs in 7 innings but his teammates had scored zero. Just 5 runs in 4 games. Friday liner had given up the same and the offense had generated the same number of runs, which seems to happen every time he's on the mound.

6 1/2 games out of the last playoff spot on the trading deadline is not insurmountable. But you also have 8 teams to jump. That's a lot. I'd hate to see anyone on this pitching staff leave (no one on offense sans kipnis, Brantley and Murphy is being looked at. Murphy is he most likely on the trading block). Kc just picked up cueto from the Reds, making them that much tougher and strengthening their only weak spot (starting pitching at he back of the rotation). It's possible he may pitch Tuesday or Wednesday in Cleveland.

IF you agree w the selling strategy, IF, then it's time to sell.

[canefan]

Got to love the experts. Saw on FB today, out of 88 "experts" who picked the winner of the Central this year, most had Cleveland. Second most had Detroit. Chicago I think was third. The Royals were picked by a whole three of the experts and the Twins, zero. Royals got a lot better this week picking up Johnny Cuerto and Ben Zobrist. I think they paid too much for both, giving up a lot of minor league pitching, but evidently the GM is all in on winning it all this year.

[mscott59]

Jul 28, 2015 19:05:54 GMT -5 canefan said:

Got to love the experts. Saw on FB today, out of 88 "experts" who picked the winner of the Central this year, most had Cleveland. Second most had Detroit. Chicago I think was third. The Royals were picked by a whole three of the experts and the Twins, zero. Royals got a lot better this week picking up Johnny Cuerto and Ben Zobrist. I think they paid too much for both, giving up a lot of minor league pitching, but evidently the GM is all in on winning it all this year.

Was surprised with the zobrist news tonite. And tribe found another new way to lose to kc. Trevor Bauer pitched a gem. 1 run thru 8, but the next pitch after a royals runner was caught stealing, hosmer, who has killed the tribe all season, jerks a rope down the right field line. Just 5 hits, just 2 runs. But that was enough. Clevelands only run came when Bourne stole 2nd and then stole 3rd, coming home on the errant throw by the catcher.

It's the tribe's 8th straight home loss. Longest such streak since my sophomore year in hs. '75. And the tribe did start shedding players during the game, trading David Murphy to the Angels. Still hearing carrasco to Toronto but no news on that yet. Hate to say it but it's time to look toward '16.

And if you remember, cane, I mentioned in the spring that he last time sports illustrated predicted Cleveland would win it all, back in '86, they lost 100 games. At least they won't lose that many this year. I think. Lol

[canefan]

Yeah, I watched the game. Hos loves playing Cleveland I guess. At least you got your #1 going against our #5 tomorrow. Never know what to expect from Guthrie. Usually he's a bulldog and gets the game to the pen. And now the pen has Medlen, Madson and Hochevar leading up to Herrera, Davis and Holland. I'm not sure I've ever seen a bullpen this deep. With Cuerto coming on either Guthrie or Young will move to long relief. Blanton was released today to make room for Cuerto.

[Buckeye Dale]

Flipped the channel at just the right time, stopped on Sports Center long enough to see Corey Kluber...12-1??? No kidding? Just a little spread on that distribution, and we are FAR from 6-11...oh well, I'm sure he's happy he got some support today...maybe this was the streak breaker.

[canefan]

I didn't get to watch the game today. Just as well. From what I'm reading JGut may have made the decision on who leaves the rotation a bit easier today. BTW, how did you like that backhand glove flip to Escobar for the first out in the ninth last night?

[mscott59]

Jul 29, 2015 20:54:05 GMT -5 canefan said:

I didn't get to watch the game today. Just as well. From what I'm reading JGut may have made the decision on who leaves the rotation a bit easier today. BTW, how did you like that backhand glove flip to Escobar for the first out in the ninth last night?

There are plays that, regardless of whether it's by or against your team, that make your jaw drop. That 4-6-3 was smooth. Tribe took out some frustration today, and finally gave Kluber some support. but you get one or two of today's hits last night and you take the series. Francona getting tossed today was funny. 1st inning Guthrie plunks kipnis (who went 9-13 in the series) on he back of the butt. Ump warns Guthrie and both dugouts. In the 5th Guthrie hits Brantley in the shin, yet the ump does nothing. Tito comes out to remind the young ump about his warning, and instead he's the one thrown out.

[canefan]

LOL!! I got to think the way Guthrie has thrown lately that nobody believes he actually hit someone on purpose. He may have tried, but hitting his target is another thing. The KC papers and websites have been calling for him to be replaced on the staff for a long time. Trouble is now they have traded away most of the pitchers that could be ready to come up.