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Post by oujour76 on Oct 27, 2016 20:36:22 GMT -5
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Post by mscott59 on Oct 27, 2016 21:17:00 GMT -5
And he was asking for 'just' $4m... I don't think the irony of psu attorneys defending some former employees (i.e. Execs) but throwing others under the legal bus (i.e. young grad assistant) was not lost on this jury.
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Post by mscott59 on Oct 27, 2016 21:17:51 GMT -5
And he was asking for 'just' $4m... I don't think the irony of psu attorneys defending some former employees (i.e. Execs) but throwing others under the legal bus (i.e. young grad assistant) was not lost on this jury. Don't think the irony was lost on the jury...
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Post by oujour76 on Oct 27, 2016 21:26:29 GMT -5
And he was asking for 'just' $4m... I don't think the irony of psu attorneys defending some former employees (i.e. Execs) but throwing others under the legal bus (i.e. young grad assistant) was not lost on this jury. I assume Penn State will appeal...the jury gave him $5 million in punitive damages. Or maybe Penn State will just leave it be as they surely want this thing to end at some point.
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Post by snap infraction on Oct 28, 2016 13:21:39 GMT -5
i'm not surprised that mcqueary won. i'm surprised psu didn't settle b/c the burden of proof in a civil case is so much lower than a criminal case. and a jury is likely going to be more sympathetic to someone like mcqueary who dramatically described his recent failings in gaining steady employment. he testified that he was rejected from rite aid and that he was doing minor maintenance work for some small rental properties owned by his family. i think penn state made a huge blunder in not awarding mcqueary his bowl bonus in 2011. i know he didn't coach in the game, but someone, anyone, should have stepped in and mentioned to psu how cruel that looks. secondly, tom bradleys testimony was devastating. he testified that he wanted mcqueary coaching when he took over as interim head coach but was overruled by the administration. the other thing i found interesting was matt rhules testimony. he testified that he never considered mcqueary when he was hired at temple despite their friendship b/c he lacked experience and heard bad things about him on the recruiting trail. but on the other hand, why did he reach out to mike to give a positive recommendation when he was applying for the job? every decision psu had made regarding the handling of this case always seems to backfire. is it poor legal advice? did they really think a jury would be sympathic to them after what they were accused of?
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Post by beuycek on Oct 28, 2016 13:28:23 GMT -5
every decision psu had made regarding the handling of this case always seems to backfire. is it poor legal advice? did they really think a jury would be sympathic to them after what they were accused of? I think it is a little bit of both. Is that because they are incredibly stupid or incredibly arrogant in thinking this would be a breeze? Maybe a little bit of both there and while I am in the camp that feels the NCAA overstepped their bounds in this case, the PSU administration isn't doing itself any favors as these trials come and go.
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Post by oujour76 on Oct 28, 2016 14:01:13 GMT -5
i'm not surprised that mcqueary won. i'm surprised psu didn't settle b/c the burden of proof in a civil case is so much lower than a criminal case. and a jury is likely going to be more sympathetic to someone like mcqueary who dramatically described his recent failings in gaining steady employment. he testified that he was rejected from rite aid and that he was doing minor maintenance work for some small rental properties owned by his family. i think penn state made a huge blunder in not awarding mcqueary his bowl bonus in 2011. i know he didn't coach in the game, but someone, anyone, should have stepped in and mentioned to psu how cruel that looks. secondly, tom bradleys testimony was devastating. he testified that he wanted mcqueary coaching when he took over as interim head coach but was overruled by the administration. the other thing i found interesting was matt rhules testimony. he testified that he never considered mcqueary when he was hired at temple despite their friendship b/c he lacked experience and heard bad things about him on the recruiting trail. but on the other hand, why did he reach out to mike to give a positive recommendation when he was applying for the job? every decision psu had made regarding the handling of this case always seems to backfire. is it poor legal advice? did they really think a jury would be sympathic to them after what they were accused of? Dunno...I haven't followed this nearly as closely as you have, but from a distance it sure has looked to me like Penn State has been remarkably tone deaf over and over again since day one.
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Post by mscott59 on Oct 28, 2016 14:18:11 GMT -5
i'm not surprised that mcqueary won. i'm surprised psu didn't settle b/c the burden of proof in a civil case is so much lower than a criminal case. and a jury is likely going to be more sympathetic to someone like mcqueary who dramatically described his recent failings in gaining steady employment. he testified that he was rejected from rite aid and that he was doing minor maintenance work for some small rental properties owned by his family. i think penn state made a huge blunder in not awarding mcqueary his bowl bonus in 2011. i know he didn't coach in the game, but someone, anyone, should have stepped in and mentioned to psu how cruel that looks. agreedsecondly, tom bradleys testimony was devastating. he testified that he wanted mcqueary coaching when he took over as interim head coach but was overruled by the administration. 100% agreed. much worse than the bowl bonus issue.the other thing i found interesting was matt rhules testimony. he testified that he never considered mcqueary when he was hired at temple despite their friendship b/c he lacked experience and heard bad things about him on the recruiting trail. but on the other hand, why did he reach out to mike to give a positive recommendation when he was applying for the job? rhules had to worry about his own reputation too. saying he didn't consider mcqueary imho was a cya move for his future career beyond temple, avoiding any stain by association pushback.every decision psu had made regarding the handling of this case always seems to backfire. is it poor legal advice? did they really think a jury would be sympathic to them after what they were accused of? psu had already lost the sympathy vote. but they still could have been viewed as within the law, as opposed to punishing a whistleblower. and they failed that test just on its face. imho they just can't, or have refused to, see the optics of their actions at every fork in the road.
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Post by bamorin on Oct 28, 2016 16:29:24 GMT -5
psu had already lost the sympathy vote. but they still could have been viewed as within the law, as opposed to punishing a whistleblower. and they failed that test just on its face. imho they just can't, or have refused to, see the optics of their actions at every fork in the road. De Nile.........seems to have quite a watershed feeding it in Pa too.
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Post by vindex on Oct 29, 2016 11:02:33 GMT -5
i'm not surprised that mcqueary won. i'm surprised psu didn't settle b/c the burden of proof in a civil case is so much lower than a criminal case. and a jury is likely going to be more sympathetic to someone like mcqueary who dramatically described his recent failings in gaining steady employment. he testified that he was rejected from rite aid and that he was doing minor maintenance work for some small rental properties owned by his family. i think penn state made a huge blunder in not awarding mcqueary his bowl bonus in 2011. i know he didn't coach in the game, but someone, anyone, should have stepped in and mentioned to psu how cruel that looks. agreedsecondly, tom bradleys testimony was devastating. he testified that he wanted mcqueary coaching when he took over as interim head coach but was overruled by the administration. 100% agreed. much worse than the bowl bonus issue.the other thing i found interesting was matt rhules testimony. he testified that he never considered mcqueary when he was hired at temple despite their friendship b/c he lacked experience and heard bad things about him on the recruiting trail. but on the other hand, why did he reach out to mike to give a positive recommendation when he was applying for the job? rhules had to worry about his own reputation too. saying he didn't consider mcqueary imho was a cya move for his future career beyond temple, avoiding any stain by association pushback.every decision psu had made regarding the handling of this case always seems to backfire. is it poor legal advice? did they really think a jury would be sympathic to them after what they were accused of? psu had already lost the sympathy vote. but they still could have been viewed as within the law, as opposed to punishing a whistleblower. and they failed that test just on its face. imho they just can't, or have refused to, see the optics of their actions at every fork in the road.One could plausibly argue that Paterno's 45 years as HC at Penn State constitute the greater portion of their CFB heritage by far. By heritage I mean positive achievements to be honored and celebrated by the school, its players, alumni and fans. Even though he had many fine accomplishments as a coach on and off the field, his legacy is tarnished by what happened on his watch there, as the crimes that were committed by his subordinate are about the most loathsome that the American public can conceive of at a personal level. The fact that he was informed of these things, yet Sandusky was permitted access to and use of the Penn State facilities for the greater part for the decade that followed, cannot be expunged. NOR should it be. But in a sport which still remains attached to its history and tradition, this must be a horrendous thing for PSU fans and especially his former players who have gone on to forge great successes in life to cope with. Imagine how Bama or tOSU fans would feel if Bear Bryant or Woody Hayes had been found out to be running a child prostitution ring; or indeed one could ask the same question of almost any other CFB program, including my own school, which looks back upon a glorious period of its past. I would only suggest that handling stuff like this requires a level of maturity that is much greater than what fandom wants or even expects. Vindex Georgia Bulldogs
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Post by daleko on Oct 29, 2016 12:39:09 GMT -5
i'm not surprised that mcqueary won. i'm surprised psu didn't settle b/c the burden of proof in a civil case is so much lower than a criminal case. and a jury is likely going to be more sympathetic to someone like mcqueary who dramatically described his recent failings in gaining steady employment. he testified that he was rejected from rite aid and that he was doing minor maintenance work for some small rental properties owned by his family. i think penn state made a huge blunder in not awarding mcqueary his bowl bonus in 2011. i know he didn't coach in the game, but someone, anyone, should have stepped in and mentioned to psu how cruel that looks. secondly, tom bradleys testimony was devastating. he testified that he wanted mcqueary coaching when he took over as interim head coach but was overruled by the administration. the other thing i found interesting was matt rhules testimony. he testified that he never considered mcqueary when he was hired at temple despite their friendship b/c he lacked experience and heard bad things about him on the recruiting trail. but on the other hand, why did he reach out to mike to give a positive recommendation when he was applying for the job? every decision psu had made regarding the handling of this case always seems to backfire. is it poor legal advice? did they really think a jury would be sympathic to them after what they were accused of? Though they may choose to drag this one out a bit, what's left to be litigated in this ongoing PSU saga?
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Post by beuycek on Oct 29, 2016 12:45:46 GMT -5
psu had already lost the sympathy vote. but they still could have been viewed as within the law, as opposed to punishing a whistleblower. and they failed that test just on its face. imho they just can't, or have refused to, see the optics of their actions at every fork in the road. One could plausibly argue that Paterno's 45 years as HC at Penn State constitute the greater portion of their CFB heritage by far. By heritage I mean positive achievements to be honored and celebrated by the school, its players, alumni and fans. Even though he had many fine accomplishments as a coach on and off the field, his legacy is tarnished by what happened on his watch there, as the crimes that were committed by his subordinate are about the most loathsome that the American public can conceive of at a personal level. The fact that he was informed of these things, yet Sandusky was permitted access to and use of the Penn State facilities for the greater part for the decade that followed, cannot be expunged. NOR should it be. But in a sport which still remains attached to its history and tradition, this must be a horrendous thing for PSU fans and especially his former players who have gone on to forge great successes in life to cope with. Imagine how Bama or tOSU fans would feel if Bear Bryant or Woody Hayes had been found out to be running a child prostitution ring; or indeed one could ask the same question of almost any other CFB program, including my own school, which looks back upon a glorious period of its past. I would only suggest that handling stuff like this requires a level of maturity that is much greater than what fandom wants or even expects. Vindex Georgia Bulldogs You make good points but I will disagree with the suggestion that Paterno allowed Sandusky access. He didn't, in fact went so far as to request his access be removed and was overruled by the university President. When acceas was granted, Paterno said it would only be for personal use, not anything pertaining the Swcond Mile. He also requested Sandusky not join the team on a bowl trip to Florida and was overruled on that, too with Sandusky ending up in the President's box for the game. Paterno made some mistakes along the way but granting Sandusky access wasn't one of them. That's on Spanier, and ultimately Erickson, who granted the emeritus status.
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Post by oujour76 on Oct 29, 2016 12:57:28 GMT -5
One could plausibly argue that Paterno's 45 years as HC at Penn State constitute the greater portion of their CFB heritage by far. By heritage I mean positive achievements to be honored and celebrated by the school, its players, alumni and fans. Even though he had many fine accomplishments as a coach on and off the field, his legacy is tarnished by what happened on his watch there, as the crimes that were committed by his subordinate are about the most loathsome that the American public can conceive of at a personal level. The fact that he was informed of these things, yet Sandusky was permitted access to and use of the Penn State facilities for the greater part for the decade that followed, cannot be expunged. NOR should it be. But in a sport which still remains attached to its history and tradition, this must be a horrendous thing for PSU fans and especially his former players who have gone on to forge great successes in life to cope with. Imagine how Bama or tOSU fans would feel if Bear Bryant or Woody Hayes had been found out to be running a child prostitution ring; or indeed one could ask the same question of almost any other CFB program, including my own school, which looks back upon a glorious period of its past. I would only suggest that handling stuff like this requires a level of maturity that is much greater than what fandom wants or even expects. Vindex Georgia Bulldogs You make good points but I will disagree with the suggestion that Paterno allowed Sandusky access. He didn't, in fact went so far as to request his access be removed and was overruled by the university President. When acceas was granted, Paterno said it would only be for personal use, not anything pertaining the Swcond Mile. He also requested Sandusky not join the team on a bowl trip to Florida and was overruled on that, too with Sandusky ending up in the President's box for the game. Paterno made some mistakes along the way but granting Sandusky access wasn't one of them. That's on Spanier, and ultimately Erickson, who granted the emeritus status. Agree on the Sandusky access thing...that said, I don't think Paterno was fooled one bit by Sandusky. I think he knew the guy liked little boys all along. JMO.
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Post by beuycek on Oct 29, 2016 13:25:18 GMT -5
You make good points but I will disagree with the suggestion that Paterno allowed Sandusky access. He didn't, in fact went so far as to request his access be removed and was overruled by the university President. When acceas was granted, Paterno said it would only be for personal use, not anything pertaining the Swcond Mile. He also requested Sandusky not join the team on a bowl trip to Florida and was overruled on that, too with Sandusky ending up in the President's box for the game. Paterno made some mistakes along the way but granting Sandusky access wasn't one of them. That's on Spanier, and ultimately Erickson, who granted the emeritus status. Agree on the Sandusky access thing...that said, I don't think Paterno was fooled one bit by Sandusky. I think he knew the guy liked little boys all along. JMO.That's fair, I think.
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Post by vindex on Oct 29, 2016 13:28:24 GMT -5
One could plausibly argue that Paterno's 45 years as HC at Penn State constitute the greater portion of their CFB heritage by far. By heritage I mean positive achievements to be honored and celebrated by the school, its players, alumni and fans. Even though he had many fine accomplishments as a coach on and off the field, his legacy is tarnished by what happened on his watch there, as the crimes that were committed by his subordinate are about the most loathsome that the American public can conceive of at a personal level. The fact that he was informed of these things, yet Sandusky was permitted access to and use of the Penn State facilities for the greater part for the decade that followed, cannot be expunged. NOR should it be. But in a sport which still remains attached to its history and tradition, this must be a horrendous thing for PSU fans and especially his former players who have gone on to forge great successes in life to cope with. Imagine how Bama or tOSU fans would feel if Bear Bryant or Woody Hayes had been found out to be running a child prostitution ring; or indeed one could ask the same question of almost any other CFB program, including my own school, which looks back upon a glorious period of its past. I would only suggest that handling stuff like this requires a level of maturity that is much greater than what fandom wants or even expects. Vindex Georgia Bulldogs You make good points but I will disagree with the suggestion that Paterno allowed Sandusky access. He didn't, in fact went so far as to request his access be removed and was overruled by the university President. When acceas was granted, Paterno said it would only be for personal use, not anything pertaining the Swcond Mile. He also requested Sandusky not join the team on a bowl trip to Florida and was overruled on that, too with Sandusky ending up in the President's box for the game. Paterno made some mistakes along the way but granting Sandusky access wasn't one of them. That's on Spanier, and ultimately Erickson, who granted the emeritus status. Beuycek, Thanks for the clarification. I did not know that Paterno had actually requested that the PSU administration remove access. Which actually begs a larger question: as the school's highest-profile and most respected figure, could he not have demanded it as opposed to requesting it? And threatened to resign if this was not done? Which in its turn raises another question: the foolish, wrong-headed comments by multiple talking heads on a plethora of sports media a decade ago that, whatever problems winning games that Penn State might have at the moment, Paterno "deserves to leave on his own clock", i.e. at the time of his own choosing, that he was OWED this because he had built their program from whatever into a national powerhouse. A stupid, ignorant statement for any adult with normal mental faculties to make. Any human institution which carries lasting worth must always be greater than its individual human contributors. There is a REASON that 70 years of age is generally considered the maximum retirement age (unless you own the business or institution). Not sayin that nobody over 70 can work or be usefully employed, just that there comes a time when past achievement has to yield to present condition in terms of continuing someone in a position of great responsibility and weight. Just my two cents as s Boomer well on into his sixties. Vindex Georgia Bulldogs
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