Fred is doing his part to support the Baltic states

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He has a boating trip planned on Clear Lake a week from tomorrow. Butterfingers receives this in the mail next Friday:

www.sgammo.com/product/223-556mm-ammo/1000-round-can-556mm-gp21-ss109-m855-62-grain-penetrator-nato-spec-ammo-made-

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Jan 6, 2017 20:20:49 GMT -5 @kelliers said:

He has a boating trip planned on Clear Lake a week from tomorrow. Butterfingers receives this in the mail next Friday:

www.sgammo.com/product/223-556mm-ammo/1000-round-can-556mm-gp21-ss109-m855-62-grain-penetrator-nato-spec-ammo-made-

So why exactly do we need armor piercing ammo?  I have a feeling (just a hunch) that they would overpenetrate the normal human body and cause problems for people behind the intended target.   Just a hunch, mind you.  I have not researched actual instances of using it.

Think I'd rather use hollow- or soft-points.  Regular old military ball, too.

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This is the standard military round and very common for civilian range use as well, just not indoor ranges. The military went from m193 to m855 for better barrier penetration. Don't worry, Fred has a huge stash of Hornady T.A.P. hollowpoints, Speer Gold Dot soft points and Lake City m193 at the bottom of two different lakes which he can retrieve if he ever has to fight off a west coast chink invasion. Frankly, any round is good as long as it goes where it's intended. BTW, the old NATO 5.56 m193 ball is a devastating anti-personnel round because it tumbles and fragments when it hits soft tissue. Just doesn't perform as well through barriers. Fred has lost more m193 than any other .223/5.56.

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Jan 7, 2017 12:04:24 GMT -5 @kelliers said:

This is the standard military round and very common for civilian range use as well, just not indoor ranges. The military went from m193 to m855 for better barrier penetration. Don't worry, Fred has a huge stash of Hornady T.A.P. hollowpoints, Speer Gold Dot soft points and Lake City m193 at the bottom of two different lakes which he can retrieve if he ever has to fight off a west coast chink invasion. Frankly, any round is good as long as it goes where it's intended. BTW, the old NATO 5.56 m193 ball is a devastating anti-personnel round because it tumbles and fragments when it hits soft tissue. Just doesn't perform as well through barriers. Fred has lost more m193 than any other .223/5.56.

Thanks for the clarification.  Told ya I'm not a rifle expert.  Long guns have always been secondary on my firearms interest list.  Having said that, I think all of my .223/5.56 is FMJ.  SP and HP are generally more expensive, and I am cheap.

I DO have SP in .303 British, which is a much more potent round anyway.  Double the muzzle energy of a .223, and bigger, heavier bullet as well.  Any typical American medium game hunting rifle -- if you can get it with a minimum 10-round magazine --- is superior to the .223 shooters.  The .303 is not American, but it IS a 10+1 rifle.

A semiauto .223 is certainly easier for rapid fire, but in a real SHTF scenario, I want to shoot as FEW rounds as I can.  A gun in any caliber with no ammunition is useless.

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Fred should be fumbling his 1000 rounds of M855 overboard in 3... 2... 1...

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Jan 14, 2017 14:43:57 GMT -5 @kelliers said:

Fred should be fumbling his 1000 rounds of M855 overboard in 3... 2... 1...

Mutt is flying in tomorrow with SCUBA gear and a metal detector.   Something about boating accidents just fascinates me.

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Jan 14, 2017 18:40:19 GMT -5 @muttmk2 said:

Jan 14, 2017 14:43:57 GMT -5 @kelliers said:

Fred should be fumbling his 1000 rounds of M855 overboard in 3... 2... 1...

Mutt is flying in tomorrow with SCUBA gear and a metal detector.   Something about boating accidents just fascinates me.

Best of all is they're in that waterproof ammo can so you should be GTG so long as you get to them within a week or so.

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Jan 14, 2017 19:08:45 GMT -5 @kelliers said:

Jan 14, 2017 18:40:19 GMT -5 @muttmk2 said:

Mutt is flying in tomorrow with SCUBA gear and a metal detector.   Something about boating accidents just fascinates me.

Best of all is they're in that waterproof ammo can so you should be GTG so long as you get to them within a week or so.

If it's high quality milspec ammo, even the individual rounds should be waterproof for quite a while.  Soldiers don't fight only in the desert, and each one doesn't carry his own ammo can.
Try an experiment.  Before your boating accident, take 10 of them and put 'em in a container of water to save for about a month.  If you still remember where they are by February 20,   take 'em out and see if they work.

I'm curious, too.

I think I might have supported Israel.   Not much difference in individual round cost.
www.midwayusa.com/product/581980/imi-ammunition-556x45mm-55-grain-m193-full-metal-jacket-boat-tail-ammo-can-of-420-14-boxes-of-30

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They're mil spec so sealed primers. Not sure about the bullet seal on the PPU M80 but the GGG M855 he just lost overboard has sealed bullets to case.

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Jan 14, 2017 20:36:00 GMT -5 @kelliers said:

They're mil spec so sealed primers. Not sure about the bullet seal on the PPU M80 but the GGG M855 he just lost overboard has sealed bullets to case.

Unless the bullet is flawed, I'm gonna guess that if you can't pull it with your bare hands, the cartridge is probably watertight.

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Jan 14, 2017 20:12:42 GMT -5 @muttmk2 said:

Jan 14, 2017 19:08:45 GMT -5 @kelliers said:

Best of all is they're in that waterproof ammo can so you should be GTG so long as you get to them within a week or so.

If it's high quality milspec ammo, even the individual rounds should be waterproof for quite a while.  Soldiers don't fight only in the desert, and each one doesn't carry his own ammo can.
Try an experiment.  Before your boating accident, take 10 of them and put 'em in a container of water to save for about a month.  If you still remember where they are by February 20,   take 'em out and see if they work.

I'm curious, too.

I think I might have supported Israel.   Not much difference in individual round cost.
www.midwayusa.com/product/581980/imi-ammunition-556x45mm-55-grain-m193-full-metal-jacket-boat-tail-ammo-can-of-420-14-boxes-of-30

The IMI is up there with the very best. Especially notable is the 77gr Razor Core with Sierra HPBT OTM Match King bullets. As accurate or better than any 5.56 on the planet.
www.sgammo.com/product/223-556mm-ammo/500-round-case-556mm-77-grain-smk-otm-lr-mod-1-razorcore-imi-ammo-made-israe-0

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Jan 22, 2017 1:29:38 GMT -5 @kelliers said:

Jan 14, 2017 20:12:42 GMT -5 @muttmk2 said:

If it's high quality milspec ammo, even the individual rounds should be waterproof for quite a while.  Soldiers don't fight only in the desert, and each one doesn't carry his own ammo can.
Try an experiment.  Before your boating accident, take 10 of them and put 'em in a container of water to save for about a month.  If you still remember where they are by February 20,   take 'em out and see if they work.

I'm curious, too.

I think I might have supported Israel.   Not much difference in individual round cost.
www.midwayusa.com/product/581980/imi-ammunition-556x45mm-55-grain-m193-full-metal-jacket-boat-tail-ammo-can-of-420-14-boxes-of-30

The IMI is up there with the very best. Especially notable is the 77gr Razor Core with Sierra HPBT OTM Match King bullets. As accurate or better than any 5.56 on the planet.
www.sgammo.com/product/223-556mm-ammo/500-round-case-556mm-77-grain-smk-otm-lr-mod-1-razorcore-imi-ammo-made-israe-0

$.70/rd?   That's kinda steep.
I'll keep buying the $.38/rd stuff from Walmart and Academy until I finally decide to reload them.
Steel cased stuff is only about $.30/rd, and it works fine in Mini-14s.

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Yeah, Fred's cutoff is $0.50 cents a round. He lost a boat load of Speer Gold Dot 55 & 64gr soft points that he got from PSA when they have the rare $9.99/box free shipping sales. Those rounds are normally a buck a round. Right now they're on sale for $10.99/free shipping. Still a hell of a deal for the best .223 out there.
palmettostatearmory.com/speer-223-remington-64gr-gold-dot-ammunition-20rds-24448.html

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Jan 22, 2017 11:00:26 GMT -5 @kelliers said:

Yeah, Fred's cutoff is $0.50 cents a round. He lost a boat load of Speer Gold Dot 55 & 64gr soft points that he got from PSA when they have the rare $9.99/box free shipping sales. Those rounds are normally a buck a round. Right now they're on sale for $10.99/free shipping. Still a hell of a deal for the best .223 out there.
palmettostatearmory.com/speer-223-remington-64gr-gold-dot-ammunition-20rds-24448.html

I don't need the best ......  just something to throw downrange and scare tin cans or paper targets with.   
I'll never win any rifle matches ----- or pistol matches either ----- but as long as I can keep 'em on a paper plate at reasonable ranges, I'm happy.

If I ever got into a serious social situation with my Mini, 30 rounds as fast I can pull the trigger should be enough to manage the problem, and semi-auto is always more accurate then full auto.   I'd rather fire twice in 10 seconds and hit, than empty a mag in no time and miss.

And a bad guy ain't gonna ask how much the bullet that put him down costs, anyway.