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Post by oujour76 on Jun 9, 2017 12:10:06 GMT -5
Those are bold statements considering Michael Jordan won six straight championships and was Championship MVP six straight times and never let a playoff series go to 7 games. In my opinion Michael Jordan is the goat I don't have anything against someone arguing for Magic and while I didn't see as much of Oscar, I have no problem with that argument either but in addition to the points you made, he did everything you could want on a basketball court. He scored, rebounded, played stellar defense and he made his teammates better. Some will argue that he had Pippen as his sidekick but when given the chance to be "the man" himself in POR, his stats across the board were never what they were while playing with MJ. Then the centers Jordan had to work with... yikes. Most importantly, Jordan knew how to win when it mattered most. MJ may not have been the most talented, the best shooter or even the best dunker, but as an all-around player, he was the best that ever lived, IMO.
Magic would be my first choice in starting a team...yours would be Jordan. Give them equal supporting casts, let them play 100 games and it's likely to be a 51-49 split. I get that.
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Post by mscott59 on Jun 9, 2017 12:40:37 GMT -5
I don't have anything against someone arguing for Magic and while I didn't see as much of Oscar, I have no problem with that argument either but in addition to the points you made, he did everything you could want on a basketball court. He scored, rebounded, played stellar defense and he made his teammates better. Some will argue that he had Pippen as his sidekick but when given the chance to be "the man" himself in POR, his stats across the board were never what they were while playing with MJ. Then the centers Jordan had to work with... yikes. Most importantly, Jordan knew how to win when it mattered most. MJ may not have been the most talented, the best shooter or even the best dunker, but as an all-around player, he was the best that ever lived, IMO.
Magic would be my first choice in starting a team...yours would be Jordan. Give them equal supporting casts, let them play 100 games and it's likely to be a 51-49 split. I get that.
funny that, even when looking back at an era where the center/big man was more prevalent, that few mention or say they would take kareem (#1 all time nba scorer), karl malone (#2, he's a 4 but could still play down low), wilt (#5 all time), shaq (#8), moses (#9), elvin hayes (#10) or even hakeem (#11), maybe the most athletic big in nba history. nor tim duncan (#14), kevin garnett (#17, another versatile big), patrick ewing (#21), etc. fwiw i think lebron is magic 2.0 w/a better jumper and better defensive skills, but it's also a different game today than 30-40 years ago. back then james would be karl malone and likely not have the freedom on court he does now. but as a gm i wouldn't turn down brining any of those guys on my squad. |
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Post by beuycek on Jun 9, 2017 12:59:32 GMT -5
All very good points which makes these types of discussion so great. Jordan is still the best, though...
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Post by oujour76 on Jun 9, 2017 13:22:43 GMT -5
funny that, even when looking back at an era where the center/big man was more prevalent, that few mention or say they would take kareem (#1 all time nba scorer), karl malone (#2, he's a 4 but could still play down low), wilt (#5 all time), shaq (#8), moses (#9), elvin hayes (#10) or even hakeem (#11), maybe the most athletic big in nba history. nor tim duncan (#14), kevin garnett (#17, another versatile big), patrick ewing (#21), etc. fwiw i think lebron is magic 2.0 w/a better jumper and better defensive skills, but it's also a different game today than 30-40 years ago. back then james would be karl malone and likely not have the freedom on court he does now. but as a gm i wouldn't turn down brining any of those guys on my squad. |
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Post by oujour76 on Jun 9, 2017 13:26:29 GMT -5
All very good points which makes these types of discussion so great. Jordan is still the best, though... LOL  |
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Post by mscott59 on Jun 9, 2017 13:29:15 GMT -5
funny that, even when looking back at an era where the center/big man was more prevalent, that few mention or say they would take kareem (#1 all time nba scorer), karl malone (#2, he's a 4 but could still play down low), wilt (#5 all time), shaq (#8), moses (#9), elvin hayes (#10) or even hakeem (#11), maybe the most athletic big in nba history. nor tim duncan (#14), kevin garnett (#17, another versatile big), patrick ewing (#21), etc. fwiw i think lebron is magic 2.0 w/a better jumper and better defensive skills, but it's also a different game today than 30-40 years ago. back then james would be karl malone and likely not have the freedom on court he does now. but as a gm i wouldn't turn down brining any of those guys on my squad. russell didn't have to score, more importantly to lead his team in scoring, for his team to win, just guard the hoop and own the boards on defense/offense. which he did like no one else. i think when he began his pro career there were 8 nba teams... by '69 when he retired there were 14. short season, shorter post-season, more difficult travel, less money, worse conditions, no science to training/diet, greater concentration of talent in the league w/so few teams... yeah lots of differing barometers. and russell was truly truly awesome. |
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Post by beuycek on Jun 9, 2017 14:03:23 GMT -5
All very good points which makes these types of discussion so great. Jordan is still the best, though... LOL Ha! It's my world, you are just living in it. Or something like that? |
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Post by arkon on Jun 9, 2017 16:51:35 GMT -5
funny that, even when looking back at an era where the center/big man was more prevalent, that few mention or say they would take kareem (#1 all time nba scorer), karl malone (#2, he's a 4 but could still play down low), wilt (#5 all time), shaq (#8), moses (#9), elvin hayes (#10) or even hakeem (#11), maybe the most athletic big in nba history. nor tim duncan (#14), kevin garnett (#17, another versatile big), patrick ewing (#21), etc. fwiw i think lebron is magic 2.0 w/a better jumper and better defensive skills, but it's also a different game today than 30-40 years ago. back then james would be karl malone and likely not have the freedom on court he does now. but as a gm i wouldn't turn down brining any of those guys on my squad. Bill Russell was The Man. Chamberlain was a gooder all around player, but he didn't have Russell's killer instinct. That's one thing you can also say about Magic, Bird and Jordan- they could seemingly lead their teams to win by willpower alone. And, good as he is, I don't think LeBron has that quality. |
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Post by arkon on Jun 9, 2017 17:01:05 GMT -5
It's all about personal preferences. When you're talking about players like Magic, Jordan, Bird, Oscar, LeBron etc. it's impossible to "prove" one is better than the other.
Magic would be my first choice in starting a team...yours would be Jordan. Give them equal supporting casts, let them play 100 games and it's likely to be a 51-49 split. I get that.
funny that, even when looking back at an era where the center/big man was more prevalent, that few mention or say they would take kareem (#1 all time nba scorer), karl malone (#2, he's a 4 but could still play down low), wilt (#5 all time), shaq (#8), moses (#9), elvin hayes (#10) or even hakeem (#11), maybe the most athletic big in nba history. nor tim duncan (#14), kevin garnett (#17, another versatile big), patrick ewing (#21), etc. fwiw i think lebron is magic 2.0 w/a better jumper and better defensive skills, but it's also a different game today than 30-40 years ago. back then james would be karl malone and likely not have the freedom on court he does now. but as a gm i wouldn't turn down brining any of those guys on my squad. I turned against Karl Malone when he had the chance to seal a playoff game against the Bulls by simply making 2 free throws. But Scottie (Jordan Jr. ) Pippen told him "the mailman doesn't deliver on Sunday ('twas a Sunday game) and Malone choked on both free throws. The Bulls went on to win that game. Letting a 2nd tier player like Pippin get in your head keeps you OFF the all-time greats list. Bird, Jordan, Magic would all have laughed in Pippin's face and sunk both free throws. |
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Post by cbisbig on Jun 9, 2017 19:55:39 GMT -5
Those are bold statements considering Michael Jordan won six straight championships and was Championship MVP six straight times and never let a playoff series go to 7 games. In my opinion Michael Jordan is the goat
A brief listing of his top accomplishments would include the following: Rookie of the Year; Five-time NBA MVP; Six-time NBA champion; Six-time NBA Finals MVP; Ten-time All-NBA First Team; Nine time NBA All-Defensive First Team; Defensive Player of the Year; 14-time NBA All-Star; Three-time NBA All-Star MVP; 50th Anniversary All-Time Team; Ten scoring titles -- an NBA record and seven consecutive matching Wilt Chamberlain; Retired with the NBA's highest scoring average of 30.1ppg Honors: Six-time NBA champion (1991-93, 1996-98); NBA MVP (1988, '91, '92, '96, '98); 10-time All-NBA First Team (1987-93, 1996-98); All-NBA Second Team (1985); Defensive Player of the Year (1988); Nine-time All-Defensive First Team (1988-93, 1996-98); Rookie of the Year (1985); 14-time All-Star; All-Star MVP (1988, '96, '98); One of 50 Greatest Players in NBA History (1996); Two-time Olympic gold medalist (1984, '92).After much speculation about his plans, Jordan returned to the spotlight in a baseball uniform. Attempting to fulfill a dream inspired by his father, the younger Jordan set his sights on Major League Baseball. He spent the 1994 baseball season playing for the Birmingham Barons, an affiliate of the Chicago White Sox in the Class AA Southern League. He was a competent if unspectacular performer. But Jordan's hope of reaching the big leagues seemed dim, and with Major League Baseball embroiled in a labor dispute as the 1995 season neared, he focused his competitive fire back on the NBA. Late in the 1994-95 NBA season, he came out of retirement with the succinct statement of "I'm Back." |
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Post by oujour76 on Jun 9, 2017 19:59:59 GMT -5
Just FTR, Jordan didn't win six straight titles or six straight playoff MVP's. In 89-90, the Bulls lost to the Pistons in seven, and in 91-92 they beat the Knicks in seven.
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Post by beuycek on Jun 9, 2017 21:16:16 GMT -5
Jordan didn't leave on his own, he was forced to by the league. No one will ever admit it but him playing baseball was a smoke screen. No doubt in my mind.
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Post by oujour76 on Jun 9, 2017 21:25:26 GMT -5
Jordan didn't leave on his own, he was forced to by the league. No one will ever admit it but him playing baseball was a smoke screen. No doubt in my mind.
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Post by beuycek on Jun 9, 2017 21:52:17 GMT -5
Jordan didn't leave on his own, he was forced to by the league. No one will ever admit it but him playing baseball was a smoke screen. No doubt in my mind.
140+ games is a strange number, I give you that but given all of the evidence they had against him, why would league suddenly drop their investigation of him just days after he "retired"? Simply because he retired even though he hadn't actually filed the paperwork yet? That doesn't make any sense either. And his comments about coming back if Stern let him makes the suspension idea even more believable. We won't ever know but they had a mountain of evidence against him and a guy as competitive as him who was on top of the basketball world just doesn't up and leave to go play minor league baseball with a little push in the back. |
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Post by oujour76 on Jun 9, 2017 22:26:16 GMT -5
A lot of folks have said that, but if true, his suspension was one full season and 65 games of another. Does that make any sense at all? FTR, to me it doesn't.
140+ games is a strange number, I give you that but given all of the evidence they had against him, why would league suddenly drop their investigation of him just days after he "retired"? Simply because he retired even though he hadn't actually filed the paperwork yet? That doesn't make any sense either. And his comments about coming back if Stern let him makes the suspension idea even more believable. We won't ever know but they had a mountain of evidence against him and a guy as competitive as him who was on top of the basketball world just doesn't up and leave to go play minor league baseball with a little push in the back.
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