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Aug 26, 2017 23:02:35 GMT -5
Post by roxalot on Aug 26, 2017 23:02:35 GMT -5
do you think , Bryan, correct or not..?...
A man may repel force by force in defense of his person, property or habitation, against unlawful force, that is, any one who manifests, intends, attempts, or endeavors, by violence or surprise, to commit a forcible felony, such as murder, rape, robbery, arson, burglary and the like. In these cases he is not required to retreat, but he may resist and even pursue his adversary, until he has secured himself from all danger.
In other words, it is perfectly legal to chase an intruder from your home, and if he turns to engage you, you still have the right to a defense of self-defense. However, your purpose for pursuit may only be to apprehend the suspect until authorities arrive (citizen's arrest), or to ensure the invader is far enough away to prevent further harm to you, your family or property. If you do in fact capture the suspect, you may only use force enough to subdue him, and once subdued, no more force is allowed.
Deadly force, that is, force likely to cause death or great bodily harm, is justified under self defense law only if a person reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent death or great bodily harm to themselves or others. In this case, if you pursue an adversary, then kill him, you can be assured your defense of self-defense will fail. You will go to prison for manslaughter, at the minimum, and possibly even murder.
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Aug 27, 2017 1:18:11 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2017 1:18:11 GMT -5
do you think , Bryan, correct or not..?... A man may repel force by force in defense of his person, property or habitation, against unlawful force, that is, any one who manifests, intends, attempts, or endeavors, by violence or surprise, to commit a forcible felony, such as murder, rape, robbery, arson, burglary and the like. In these cases he is not required to retreat, but he may resist and even pursue his adversary, until he has secured himself from all danger. In other words, it is perfectly legal to chase an intruder from your home, and if he turns to engage you, you still have the right to a defense of self-defense. However, your purpose for pursuit may only be to apprehend the suspect until authorities arrive (citizen's arrest), or to ensure the invader is far enough away to prevent further harm to you, your family or property. If you do in fact capture the suspect, you may only use force enough to subdue him, and once subdued, no more force is allowed. Deadly force, that is, force likely to cause death or great bodily harm, is justified under self defense law only if a person reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent death or great bodily harm to themselves or others. In this case, if you pursue an adversary, then kill him, you can be assured your defense of self-defense will fail. You will go to prison for manslaughter, at the minimum, and possibly even murder. "Deadly force, that is, force likely to cause death or great bodily harm, is justified under self defense law only if a person reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent death or great bodily harm to themselves or others." Deadly force is NEVER justified in defense of property only.
What is an "adversary?" This gets a bit tougher, and I will give my OPINION here.
If a guy comes at me over a personal issue, if I successfully repel him, I can reasonably assume he is not a threat to the general public and it is in my best interest to let the police handle it.
If, however, a nutcase is walking down the street shooting at anything that moves, he is a threat to the public in general. In this case, a private citizen has the same powers of arrest, and the right to stop such a felony as any police officer does. So if you follow him down the street and he is shooting at other people, or at a structure or vehicle that you reasonably suspect contains other people,, you can put him down right then and there.
We have to use our judgement here, though. If it's carload of thugs doing a driveby, I would NOT recommend jumping into YOUR car and trying to stop them. If you can follow them safely while keeping the 911 people informed of their location and other pertinent information, there's nothing wrong with that, except you CAN NOT disregard traffic laws like a properly equipped authorized emergency vehicle is.
To sum up my OPINION, if he is actively trying to harm you or someone else, or is in the commission of unlawfully entering a structure that YOU have the legal right to be in, harm HIM first. If it's only property. let him go. The law says even a thug's life is worth more than your car or big screen TV. If he is LEAVING your area and you believe he is going to harm others, you'd have to make your own call based on such things as location (open country vs. city streets), your knowledge of emergency response time for your local LEO's, time of day, lighting and your knowledge of proper tactics in such cases. I can't sit here and say what I would do, let alone anyone else.
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Aug 27, 2017 1:22:51 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2017 1:22:51 GMT -5
You answered your own question, Rox.Deadly force is NEVER justified in defense of property only.
Except in Texas and other states. Doesn't mean you won't be judged by God. |
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Aug 27, 2017 1:29:11 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2017 1:29:11 GMT -5
You answered your own question, Rox.Deadly force is NEVER justified in defense of property only.
Except in Texas and other states. Doesn't mean you won't be judged by God. |
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Aug 27, 2017 1:58:54 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2017 1:58:54 GMT -5
Except in Texas and other states. Doesn't mean you won't be judged by God. Ask the guy who wasn't charged for shooting the burglars of his neighbor's house awhile back. |
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Aug 27, 2017 9:57:54 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2017 9:57:54 GMT -5
So if I am in Texas and someone is hooking up my boat and trailer to haul them off, I can shoot and kill him? Ask the guy who wasn't charged for shooting the burglars of his neighbor's house awhile back.
codes.findlaw.com/tx/penal-code/penal-sect-9-32.html
Maybe there were other circumstances involved.
Either way, I as a smart and non-violent person, am NOT going to use deadly force in the protection of property alone, EXCEPT if someone tries to enter my house illegally. If he is breaking into MY house, or into another place where I am present, I won't wait to ask his intentions. If he is outside trying to break into my car or steal my property, I will NOT shoot. In Louisiana that is illegal.
Taking a human life is something not to be taken lightly. Have you ever seen a person who has been shot to death? Besides the blood and everything else, they just look so ..................... small. And dead.
And then the thoughts flood in. This person was someone's son. They waited for him to be born. They (usually) tried to raise him right. He went to school, he played with his friends. He read comic books and watched TV. Who was he (if you don't know his background)?
Watch this video and see how a police officer reacts to killing a man that he was completely justified in killing:
His reaction begins at about the 3:55 mark, and his justification is shown in the beginning of the video.
Taking a human life is something not to be taken lightly.
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Aug 29, 2017 18:55:44 GMT -5
Post by Buckeye Dale on Aug 29, 2017 18:55:44 GMT -5
Ask the guy who wasn't charged for shooting the burglars of his neighbor's house awhile back.
codes.findlaw.com/tx/penal-code/penal-sect-9-32.html
Maybe there were other circumstances involved.
Either way, I as a smart and non-violent person, am NOT going to use deadly force in the protection of property alone, EXCEPT if someone tries to enter my house illegally. If he is breaking into MY house, or into another place where I am present, I won't wait to ask his intentions. If he is outside trying to break into my car or steal my property, I will NOT shoot. In Louisiana that is illegal.
Taking a human life is something not to be taken lightly. Have you ever seen a person who has been shot to death? Besides the blood and everything else, they just look so ..................... small. And dead.
And then the thoughts flood in. This person was someone's son. They waited for him to be born. They (usually) tried to raise him right. He went to school, he played with his friends. He read comic books and watched TV. Who was he (if you don't know his background)?
Watch this video and see how a police officer reacts to killing a man that he was completely justified in killing:
His reaction begins at about the 3:55 mark, and his justification is shown in the beginning of the video.
Taking a human life is something not to be taken lightly.
True enough...but we all know that there are some SOBs who just need to be shot... |
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Aug 29, 2017 19:07:15 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2017 19:07:15 GMT -5
Taking a human life is something not to be taken lightly.
True enough...but we all know that there are some SOBs who just need to be shot...
Why do I think of Denver when you say that?  |
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Sept 4, 2017 8:07:48 GMT -5
Post by bamorin on Sept 4, 2017 8:07:48 GMT -5
(c) A person who has a right to be present at the location where the deadly force is used, who has not provoked the person against whom the deadly force is used, and who is not engaged in criminal activity at the time the deadly force is used is not required to retreat before using deadly force as described by this section.Ohio has a similar "neighbor law". I have several signed "permission" notes from my neighbors who allow me full access to their properties if they aren't home. IE, I can confront a trespasser, or burglar in their home. I have the same rights to self defense as I do in my own house or property. |
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Sept 4, 2017 8:23:00 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2017 8:23:00 GMT -5
(c) A person who has a right to be present at the location where the deadly force is used, who has not provoked the person against whom the deadly force is used, and who is not engaged in criminal activity at the time the deadly force is used is not required to retreat before using deadly force as described by this section.Ohio has a similar "neighbor law". I have several signed "permission" notes from my neighbors who allow me full access to their properties if they aren't home. IE, I can confront a trespasser, or burglar in their home. I have the same rights to self defense as I do in my own house or property.
Did you plan to stand outside the door and execute them when they walk out with their hands full of big screen TV?
That is SO wrong on so many levels. AND it is illegal. You forgot to read the part where you can NOT use deadly force to prevent a simple burglary. Do what you suggest and you will be in jail for a long time.
Hell, burglary is not even mentioned here!
(a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another: (1) if the actor would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.31; and (2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary: (A) to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force; or (B) to prevent the other's imminent commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.
(b) The actor's belief under Subsection (a)(2) that the deadly force was immediately necessary as described by that subdivision is presumed to be reasonable if the actor: (1) knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom the deadly force was used: (A) unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor's occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment; Notice that little word "occupied?" Shoot someone in an empty house and you are in trouble.
codes.findlaw.com/tx/penal-code/penal-sect-9-32.html
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Sept 4, 2017 9:25:38 GMT -5
Post by roxalot on Sept 4, 2017 9:25:38 GMT -5
Hey ba, just follow the dude(s) back to their getaway vehicle and blow their tires out with your pump 12 ga. when they try to crank up and flee...
hey Bryan, ba has the right to make a citizen's arrest in the case of one of his neighbor's houses being robbed. If the criminal resists or tries to escape, what do you think about the tire blowing suggestion..?.. What would YOU do if you saw one of your neighbor's houses being robbed..?..
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Sept 4, 2017 10:09:09 GMT -5
Post by bamorin on Sept 4, 2017 10:09:09 GMT -5
Hey ba, just follow the dude(s) back to their getaway vehicle and blow their tires out with your pump 12 ga. when they try to crank up and flee... That would be quite illegal. however, if they try to force their way past me out the front door, that would be perfectly legal ( not shooting the tires I mean) do you have a fundamental issue with that? |
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Sept 4, 2017 12:38:51 GMT -5
Post by Buckeye Dale on Sept 4, 2017 12:38:51 GMT -5
Guns?? WHAT guns?
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We can disagree without being disagreeable.
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Sept 4, 2017 12:57:33 GMT -5
Post by roxalot on Sept 4, 2017 12:57:33 GMT -5
Hey ba, just follow the dude(s) back to their getaway vehicle and blow their tires out with your pump 12 ga. when they try to crank up and flee... That would be quite illegal. however, if they try to force their way past me out the front door, that would be perfectly legal ( not shooting the tires I mean) do you have a fundamental issue with that? No, but what do you do if it's one guy and he's unarmed... and he really wants to leave.?.. |
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Sept 4, 2017 17:29:11 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2017 17:29:11 GMT -5
Hey ba, just follow the dude(s) back to their getaway vehicle and blow their tires out with your pump 12 ga. when they try to crank up and flee... hey Bryan, ba has the right to make a citizen's arrest in the case of one of his neighbor's houses being robbed. If the criminal resists or tries to escape, what do you think about the tire blowing suggestion..?.. What would YOU do if you saw one of your neighbor's houses being robbed..?..
Yes, you may have the right to make a citizen's arrest. Is the crime a felony or a misdemeanor? Do you know the difference for every situation? However, if a criminal is unarmed and resists arrest, you do NOT have the right to use deadly force against him to affect the arrest. Leave the arresting to the professionals, UNLESS the threat of death or great bodily harm is present.
What would I do? For one thing, I am NOT going to go up to the neighbor's door and try to block the bad guys from coming out. While I am standing at the front door like John Wayne, bad guy #3 or 4 has slipped out a side door or back window, comes around the corner and blows MY dumb ass away!!!
Do you know how many people actually entered the house? If you saw them go in, you call the cops at that instant. The bad guys think they have been undetected and they will probably still be inside when more than ONE cop arrives. If they start coming out before the cops get there, they are taking PROPERTY ONLY.
If I can safely confront them and force a peaceful surrender, I will. But I will do so from COVER, at a distance.
If they decide to run, I am not going to shoot them. I will try to remember all the descriptors I can for the police.
If they decide to resist by shooting at me, or attacking me, all bets are off. I will do what I HAVE to do, and I will mentally kick myself for not staying in my own house and being a good witness.
Y'all seem to think this is so easy, and cut and dried. You think you can blow away a bad guy, talk to the cops for 5 minutes, then go get ready to see yourself on the 10 o'clock news. That is NOT how it happens.
Remember, if you KNOW no one is home next door, the bad guys are only taking THINGS. Is it worth having your gun taken, interviewed for hours, possibly charged with a crime, and probably sued by the bad guys or their families? How about the huge weight of having killed another person over a big screen TV or a few bucks' worth of jewelry, if that happens?
Think about all that, then do whatever you want to. I'm not a lawyer, so I WILL NOT go on record here and say that in my opinion you should kill someone over property.
I won't say exactly what I will do either. If I have it all planned out, that can be twisted into premeditated murder especially when I announce it for all the world to see. Ask Trn, if you don't think a lawyer will use every thing he can find AGAINST you.
In the meantime, go ask your neighbor if he has homeowner's insurance. Property is replaceable. A life is NOT.
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