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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2018 19:27:54 GMT -5
Most of the critical classified JFK documents have either been heavily redacted or withheld, to date, in violation of the 1992 Congressional JFK ARR Act to declassify them by 2017
One interesting file released last year was the long classified 1978 HSCA testimony of Orest Pena, a Cuban-American immigrant who owned a bar in New Orleans in 1963.
Pena testified that Lee Harvey Oswald was in frequent contact with an FBI agent in New Orleans during the summer of 1963. How did Pena know that Oswald was working for the U.S. government? Because Pena, himself, was reporting to the same FBI agent.
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Post by Walter on Jan 29, 2018 0:02:03 GMT -5
Most of the critical classified JFK documents have either been heavily redacted or withheld, to date, in violation of the 1992 Congressional JFK ARR Act to declassify them by 2017 One interesting file released last year was the long classified 1978 HSCA testimony of Orest Pena, a Cuban-American immigrant who owned a bar in New Orleans in 1963. Pena testified that Lee Harvey Oswald was in frequent contact with an FBI agent in New Orleans during the summer of 1963. How did Pena know that Oswald was working for the U.S. government? Because Pena, himself, was reporting to the same FBI agent. But you claim LHO was a CIA employee. Why was he working with the FBI? Would that not undermine his cover? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2018 0:46:47 GMT -5
Most of the critical classified JFK documents have either been heavily redacted or withheld, to date, in violation of the 1992 Congressional JFK ARR Act to declassify them by 2017 One interesting file released last year was the long classified 1978 HSCA testimony of Orest Pena, a Cuban-American immigrant who owned a bar in New Orleans in 1963. Pena testified that Lee Harvey Oswald was in frequent contact with an FBI agent in New Orleans during the summer of 1963. How did Pena know that Oswald was working for the U.S. government? Because Pena, himself, was reporting to the same FBI agent. But you claim LHO was a CIA employee. Why was he working with the FBI? Would that not undermine his cover? We know that he was a paid FBI informant in Dallas, and was reporting to FBI agents Bannister and Brueys in New Orleans. But he was also being handled by CIA assets-- De Mohrenschildt, David Phillips, and the Paines in Dallas-- Clay Shaw and David Ferrie in N.O. There was significant cooperation between the CIA and FBI in the black op to kill JFK. For example, Allen Dulles essentially ran the Warren Commission, while J. Edgar Hoover wiretapped the meetings. Dulles and Hoover cooperated closely to restrict what data was reviewed by the WC. Hoover also directly briefed "Mr. George Bush of the CIA" about the JFK murder investigation on 11/29/63. |
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Post by Walter on Jan 30, 2018 10:57:01 GMT -5
But you claim LHO was a CIA employee. Why was he working with the FBI? Would that not undermine his cover? We know that he was a paid FBI informant in Dallas, and was reporting to FBI agents Bannister and Brueys in New Orleans. But he was also being handled by CIA assets-- De Mohrenschildt, David Phillips, and the Paines in Dallas-- Clay Shaw and David Ferrier in N.O. There was significant cooperation between the CIA and FBI in the black op to kill JFK. For example, Allen Dulles essentially ran the Warren Commission, while J. Edgar Hoover wiretapped the meetings. Dulles and Hoover cooperated closely to restrict what data was reviewed by the WC. Hoover also directly briefed "Mr. George Bush of the CIA" about the JFK murder investigation on 11/29/63. So LHO was taking taxpayer dollars as an FBI informant while getting a paycheck at CIA. I am gaining respect for the man. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2018 12:06:17 GMT -5
We know that he was a paid FBI informant in Dallas, and was reporting to FBI agents Bannister and Brueys in New Orleans. But he was also being handled by CIA assets-- De Mohrenschildt, David Phillips, and the Paines in Dallas-- Clay Shaw and David Ferrier in N.O. There was significant cooperation between the CIA and FBI in the black op to kill JFK. For example, Allen Dulles essentially ran the Warren Commission, while J. Edgar Hoover wiretapped the meetings. Dulles and Hoover cooperated closely to restrict what data was reviewed by the WC. Hoover also directly briefed "Mr. George Bush of the CIA" about the JFK murder investigation on 11/29/63. So LHO was taking taxpayer dollars as an FBI informant while getting a paycheck at CIA. I am gaining respect for the man. Oswald was, obviously, creating a fake legend about himself as a pro-Castro commie in New Orleans. But he goofed up and printed Guy Bannister's office address on his Fair Play for Cuba leaflets. Interestingly, after the patsy, Oswald, was arrested in Dallas on 11/22/63, a guy attending the press conference, named Jack Ruby, was the one who shouted to the reporters that Oswald was a member of Fair Play for Cuba. |
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Post by Walter on Jan 30, 2018 16:35:52 GMT -5
So LHO was taking taxpayer dollars as an FBI informant while getting a paycheck at CIA. I am gaining respect for the man. Oswald was, obviously, creating a fake legend about himself as a pro-Castro commie in New Orleans. But he goofed up and printed Guy Bannister's office address on his Fair Play for Cuba leaflets. Interestingly, after the patsy, Oswald, was arrested in Dallas on 11/22/63, a guy attending the press conference, named Jack Ruby, was the one who shouted to the reporters that Oswald was a member of Fair Play for Cuba. Your goofball stories mismatch in so many places, it's ridiculous to pursue, but what the heck... So he was creating a legend for himself and, in a sweeeeet deal for him, double dipping from the government, in order to achieve...what? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2018 20:51:39 GMT -5
Oswald was, obviously, creating a fake legend about himself as a pro-Castro commie in New Orleans. But he goofed up and printed Guy Bannister's office address on his Fair Play for Cuba leaflets. Interestingly, after the patsy, Oswald, was arrested in Dallas on 11/22/63, a guy attending the press conference, named Jack Ruby, was the one who shouted to the reporters that Oswald was a member of Fair Play for Cuba. Your goofball stories mismatch in so many places, it's ridiculous to pursue, but what the heck... So he was creating a legend for himself and, in a sweeeeet deal for him, double dipping from the government, in order to achieve...what? My evidence-based stories are perfectly, internally consistent. Do you even know what the CIA means by creating a "legend"-- a back story? There are multiple, converging lines of evidence that Oswald was a long-term CIA asset from Angleton's false defector program. In 1963, he was posing as a pro-Castro Marxist, while keeping extensive files on suspected "commies" and reporting to U.S government agents. (His files were in Ruth Paines' garage on 11/22/63.) CIA asset Ruth Paine got the TSBD job for Oswald in October of 1963. He was set up as a Lone Nut patsy by his own CIA handlers-- believing until the end that he was going to be flown out of Red Bird Airport on 11/ 22/63 (with GHWB, et.al.) on the CIA's chartered getaway flight to Houston. |
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Post by Walter on Jan 30, 2018 20:55:11 GMT -5
Your goofball stories mismatch in so many places, it's ridiculous to pursue, but what the heck... So he was creating a legend for himself and, in a sweeeeet deal for him, double dipping from the government, in order to achieve...what? My evidence-based stories are perfectly, internally consistent. Do you even know what the CIA means by creating a "legend"-- a back story? There are multiple, converging lines of evidence that Oswald was a long-term CIA asset from Angleton's false defector program. In 1963, he was posing as a pro-Castro Marxist, while keeping extensive files on suspected "commies" and reporting to U.S government agents. (His files were in Ruth Paines' garage on 11/22/63.) CIA asset Ruth Paine got the TSBD job for Oswald in October of 1963. He was set up as a Lone Nut patsy by his own CIA handlers-- believing until the end that he was going to be flown out of Red Bird Airport on 11/ 22/63 (with GHWB, et.al.) on the CIA's chartered getaway flight to Houston. Then why was the FBI paying him? Did they know he was a CIA agent? If so, why would they pay him? If not, then clearly the two agencies could not have been working together on this plot and it would not matter if he met with the FBI 10 times a day or not. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2018 21:38:00 GMT -5
My evidence-based stories are perfectly, internally consistent. Do you even know what the CIA means by creating a "legend"-- a back story? There are multiple, converging lines of evidence that Oswald was a long-term CIA asset from Angleton's false defector program. In 1963, he was posing as a pro-Castro Marxist, while keeping extensive files on suspected "commies" and reporting to U.S government agents. (His files were in Ruth Paines' garage on 11/22/63.) CIA asset Ruth Paine got the TSBD job for Oswald in October of 1963. He was set up as a Lone Nut patsy by his own CIA handlers-- believing until the end that he was going to be flown out of Red Bird Airport on 11/ 22/63 (with GHWB, et.al.) on the CIA's chartered getaway flight to Houston. Then why was the FBI paying him? Did they know he was a CIA agent? If so, why would they pay him? If not, then clearly the two agencies could not have been working together on this plot and it would not matter if he met with the FBI 10 times a day or not. Walt, Speaking of a guy whose "goofball stories" don't line up, let me ask you a few questions. If Oswald was a pro-Castro "Lone Nut"-- as Allen Dulles insisted throughout the Warren Commission's sham "investigation"-- why was he always seen working with anti-Castro U.S. government CIA and FBI assets in New Orleans and Dallas in 1963-- Guy Bannister, David Ferrie, Clay Shaw, Brueys, George DeMohrenschildt, David Atlee Phillips, and Jack Ruby? Not a very "lonely" Lone Nut, eh? Why did those who knew him well describe him as a right wing anti-communist ex-Marine? Why was he sent to the U.S. government's Russian language school in Monterrey, California when he was in the Marine Corps? Why did his mother claim that "Lee worked for American intelligence?" How did Oswald and his wife end up living with CIA assets Ruth and Michael Paine in Irving, Texas in 1963? Ready, go!! |
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Post by Walter on Jan 31, 2018 0:48:28 GMT -5
Then why was the FBI paying him? Did they know he was a CIA agent? If so, why would they pay him? If not, then clearly the two agencies could not have been working together on this plot and it would not matter if he met with the FBI 10 times a day or not. Walt, Speaking of a guy whose "goofball stories" don't line up, let me ask you a few questions. If Oswald was a pro-Castro "Lone Nut"-- as Allen Dulles insisted throughout the Warren Commission's sham "investigation"-- why was he always seen working with anti-Castro U.S. government CIA and FBI assets in New Orleans and Dallas in 1963-- Guy Bannister, David Ferrie, Clay Shaw, Brueys, George DeMohrenschildt, David Atlee Phillips, and Jack Ruby? Not a very "lonely" Lone Nut, eh? Why did those who knew him well describe him as a right wing anti-communist ex-Marine? Why was he sent to the U.S. government's Russian language school in Monterrey, California when he was in the Marine Corps? Why did his mother claim that "Lee worked for American intelligence?" How did Oswald and his wife end up living with CIA assets Ruth and Michael Paine in Irving, Texas in 1963? Ready, go!! First, answer a simple question I ask for the third time. Why was LHO being paid twice for the same work by two agencies? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2018 13:07:34 GMT -5
Walt, Speaking of a guy whose "goofball stories" don't line up, let me ask you a few questions. If Oswald was a pro-Castro "Lone Nut"-- as Allen Dulles insisted throughout the Warren Commission's sham "investigation"-- why was he always seen working with anti-Castro U.S. government CIA and FBI assets in New Orleans and Dallas in 1963-- Guy Bannister, David Ferrie, Clay Shaw, Brueys, George DeMohrenschildt, David Atlee Phillips, and Jack Ruby? Not a very "lonely" Lone Nut, eh? Why did those who knew him well describe him as a right wing anti-communist ex-Marine? Why was he sent to the U.S. government's Russian language school in Monterrey, California when he was in the Marine Corps? Why did his mother claim that "Lee worked for American intelligence?" How did Oswald and his wife end up living with CIA assets Ruth and Michael Paine in Irving, Texas in 1963? Ready, go!! First, answer a simple question I ask for the third time. Why was LHO being paid twice for the same work by two agencies? Not unusual, by any stretch. In fact, according to Col. L. Fletcher Prouty, (former Joint Chiefs liaison to the CIA in the early 1960s) in his truly fascinating book, The Secret Team, Allen Dulles had succeeded in infiltrating almost every department in the U.S. government-- State, Treasury, Pentagon, FBI, etc.-- with CIA assets who were secretly reporting to Dulles. It's precisely what Prouty called "the Secret Team." A famous later example was E. Howard Hunt working on Nixon's staff at the White House. Everyone knows by now that Hunt was always CIA, but he had, officially, ceased working "for the CIA" at some point in his legendary career. (Hunt played a key role in setting up the botched Watergate burglary.) Another example was Saigon Station head, General Edward Lansdale. Lansdale was a nominal Air Force general, but he was a key black ops man for Allen Dulles. (In fact, Lansdale was at Dealey Plaza with GHWB on 11/22/63.) |
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Post by Walter on Jan 31, 2018 13:56:30 GMT -5
First, answer a simple question I ask for the third time. Why was LHO being paid twice for the same work by two agencies? Not unusual, by any stretch. In fact, according to Col. L. Fletcher Prouty, (former Joint Chiefs liaison to the CIA in the early 1960s) in his truly fascinating book, The Secret Team, Allen Dulles had succeeded in infiltrating almost every department in the U.S. government-- State, Treasury, Pentagon, FBI, etc.-- with CIA assets who were secretly reporting to Dulles. It's precisely what Prouty called "the Secret Team." A famous later example was E. Howard Hunt working on Nixon's staff at the White House. Everyone knows by now that Hunt was always CIA, but he had, officially, ceased working "for the CIA" at some point in his legendary career. (Hunt played a key role in setting up the botched Watergate burglary.) Another example was Saigon Station head, General Edward Lansdale. Lansdale was a nominal Air Force general, but he was a key black ops man for Allen Dulles. (In fact, Lansdale was at Dealey Plaza with GHWB on 11/22/63.) So, "...frequent contact with an FBI agent" and "working for the US government", as an FBI informant means nothing, as the FBI had no idea he was working for CIA. Glad we cleared that up. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2018 21:13:23 GMT -5
Not unusual, by any stretch. In fact, according to Col. L. Fletcher Prouty, (former Joint Chiefs liaison to the CIA in the early 1960s) in his truly fascinating book, The Secret Team, Allen Dulles had succeeded in infiltrating almost every department in the U.S. government-- State, Treasury, Pentagon, FBI, etc.-- with CIA assets who were secretly reporting to Dulles. It's precisely what Prouty called "the Secret Team." A famous later example was E. Howard Hunt working on Nixon's staff at the White House. Everyone knows by now that Hunt was always CIA, but he had, officially, ceased working "for the CIA" at some point in his legendary career. (Hunt played a key role in setting up the botched Watergate burglary.) Another example was Saigon Station head, General Edward Lansdale. Lansdale was a nominal Air Force general, but he was a key black ops man for Allen Dulles. (In fact, Lansdale was at Dealey Plaza with GHWB on 11/22/63.) So, "...frequent contact with an FBI agent" and "working for the US government", as an FBI informant means nothing, as the FBI had no idea he was working for CIA. Glad we cleared that up. A lot of U.S. government agencies-- and private corporations--had employees who were secretly working for the CIA in 1963. Case in point. George H.W. Bush was a big wheel in the CIA at the time, (even meeting directly with Hoover to be debriefed on the FBI's non-investigation of JFK's murder) while running his Zapata Oil/ CIA front company. C.D. Jackson, the CEO of Life magazine (who bought and locked up the Zapruder film for years) was the former OSS Director of Psy Ops. |
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Post by Walter on Feb 1, 2018 7:48:47 GMT -5
So, "...frequent contact with an FBI agent" and "working for the US government", as an FBI informant means nothing, as the FBI had no idea he was working for CIA. Glad we cleared that up. A lot of U.S. government agencies-- and private corporations--had employees who were secretly working for the CIA in 1963. Case in point. George H.W. Bush was a big wheel in the CIA at the time, (even meeting directly with Hoover to be debriefed on the FBI's non-investigation of JFK's murder) while running his Zapata Oil/ CIA front company. C.D. Jackson, the CEO of Life magazine (who bought and locked up the Zapruder film for years) was the former OSS Director of Psy Ops. I do not know if that is true, but again, even if we assume it is, since FBI did not know about LHO's alleged relationship with CIA, his meeting with them is not relevant. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2018 14:45:34 GMT -5
A lot of U.S. government agencies-- and private corporations--had employees who were secretly working for the CIA in 1963. Case in point. George H.W. Bush was a big wheel in the CIA at the time, (even meeting directly with Hoover to be debriefed on the FBI's non-investigation of JFK's murder) while running his Zapata Oil/ CIA front company. C.D. Jackson, the CEO of Life magazine (who bought and locked up the Zapruder film for years) was the former OSS Director of Psy Ops. I do not know if that is true, but again, even if we assume it is, since FBI did not know about LHO's alleged relationship with CIA, his meeting with them is not relevant.
The relevance of this latest declassified 1978 HSCA document is that Orest Pena's testimony is yet another nail in the coffin of the Warren Commission's "Lone Nut" narrative about Lee Harvey Oswald.
In other words, LHO was not a "Lone Nut." He was, obviously, working with a group of known CIA and FBI assets in 1963-- in New Orleans and in Dallas.
Pena's testimony-- which was dismissed by the U.S. government "investigators"-- is one more piece in the jigsaw puzzle.
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