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Post by mscott59 on Jan 27, 2020 12:31:42 GMT -5
Thanks for correcting me about the crash footage. I should have looked into it more closely. On review, it does appear that visibility is much better than reported at the CA crash site. I hope Youtube will remove that.
It doesn't matter how many people were in the crash. One person is not more important than the others that were killed. THAT is what matters.
Visibility was not terribly good. the entire region was overcast and foggy, though I believe there is reference made out of ATC about VFR. That said, with a low deck, it seems odd to not have followed the natural valley between the SF valley and TO. The chopper was significantly south of it in an area with terrain close to the reported ceiling of 1500ft. had taken the grandkids to a dinosaur expo (more like a county fair-lol) in downtown columbus when notifications started blowing up just before 2 est. of course it’s a tragedy for all involved, especially the kids on board. but kobe was known around the world. of course his death is going to get attention. was thinking last night about how many notable people in american history have lost their lives in private aircraft tragedies down they the years. for those of you who’ve never flown in a chopper, it is a different feeling/experience, especially when you can see those blades spinning above your head. |
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Post by beuycek on Jan 27, 2020 13:44:12 GMT -5
Visibility was not terribly good. the entire region was overcast and foggy, though I believe there is reference made out of ATC about VFR. That said, with a low deck, it seems odd to not have followed the natural valley between the SF valley and TO. The chopper was significantly south of it in an area with terrain close to the reported ceiling of 1500ft. had taken the grandkids to a dinosaur expo (more like a county fair-lol) in downtown columbus when notifications started blowing up just before 2 est. of course it’s a tragedy for all involved, especially the kids on board. but kobe was known around the world. of course his death is going to get attention. was thinking last night about how many notable people in american history have lost their lives in private aircraft tragedies down they the years. for those of you who’ve never flown in a chopper, it is a different feeling/experience, especially when you can see those blades spinning above your head. One such tragedy that sticks in my mind is Payne Stewart. Beyond the thought of losing oxygen as the plane ascended, the eeriness of the images the F16 pilots relayed about the cockpit being iced over and knowing the Canadian Prime Minister had authorized the plane to be shot down if it entered Canadian airspace is crazy. I can't even imagine having to make that call. |
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Post by Buckeye Dale on Jan 27, 2020 14:12:41 GMT -5
had taken the grandkids to a dinosaur expo (more like a county fair-lol) in downtown columbus when notifications started blowing up just before 2 est. of course it’s a tragedy for all involved, especially the kids on board. but kobe was known around the world. of course his death is going to get attention. was thinking last night about how many notable people in american history have lost their lives in private aircraft tragedies down they the years. for those of you who’ve never flown in a chopper, it is a different feeling/experience, especially when you can see those blades spinning above your head. One such tragedy that sticks in my mind is Payne Stewart. Beyond the thought of losing oxygen as the plane ascended, the eeriness of the images the F16 pilots relayed about the cockpit being iced over and knowing the Canadian Prime Minister had authorized the plane to be shot down if it entered Canadian airspace is crazy. I can't even imagine having to make that call. I read that same thing elsewhere, and have to admit, I had to google as to who he was...I have no recollection of that incident at all... |
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Post by beuycek on Jan 27, 2020 14:25:17 GMT -5
One such tragedy that sticks in my mind is Payne Stewart. Beyond the thought of losing oxygen as the plane ascended, the eeriness of the images the F16 pilots relayed about the cockpit being iced over and knowing the Canadian Prime Minister had authorized the plane to be shot down if it entered Canadian airspace is crazy. I can't even imagine having to make that call. I read that same thing elsewhere, and have to admit, I had to google as to who he was...I have no recollection of that incident at all... He was a very popular golfer but the accident got a little more attention down here since he lived in Orlando at the time. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2020 15:16:40 GMT -5
Thanks for correcting me about the crash footage. I should have looked into it more closely. On review, it does appear that visibility is much better than reported at the CA crash site. I hope Youtube will remove that.
It doesn't matter how many people were in the crash. One person is not more important than the others that were killed. THAT is what matters.
Visibility was not terribly good. the entire region was overcast and foggy, though I believe there is reference made out of ATC about VFR. That said, with a low deck, it seems odd to not have followed the natural valley between the SF valley and TO. The chopper was significantly south of it in an area with terrain close to the reported ceiling of 1500ft. Going down into a valley is NOT a good idea. If you are in a valley and the ceiling drops even lower, you are really screwed. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. A perfect outcome would have been for the pilot to tell ATC "I can't see. I am going to find an open area, set this thing down and wait it out." He would have had 8 pissed-off passengers, but they would all be alive to be pissed off.
The good thing about SVFR in a helicopter is that it can fly so slow that the pilot can see and avoid obstacles that a fixed wing aircraft would not have time to avoid. One of the witnesses said he saw and heard the helo flying very low and slow, although it was so foggy that he could not even really describe the helicopter. In order to fly SVR in IFR, both the pilot and the aircraft must be rated for IFR, which brings up another interesting question. Why didn't the guy go ahead and file for IFR? I have to wonder if he was flying over his head, figuratively and literally. Many chopper pilots are VFR-only rated.
The cause will probably be pilot error, fueled by a condition common to pilots known as "get there-itis." Too many pilots think the importance of the trip is worth the risk of not making it. Pilots for hire are sometimes pressured to fly by their clients, even though their own good sense tells them not to fly. Get there-itis is not always fatal, but it can cause some bent airplanes, or some really harrowing white-knuckle experiences. If that is the case, the official NTSB ruling will be something like "continued VFR flight into IFR conditions." A cold clinical phrase for "he was stupid."
If I got a weather briefing from flight service before a planned flight and I heard "VFR flight is not recommended," I scrubbed. I'm not IFR certified and my flights were for pleasure, not self-induced terror. I DO have enough instrument training to hopefully save my ass if somehow I stupidly got myself into clouds, but the keywords are "stupidly" and "hopefully." I'm not suicidal nor would I want to risk innocent people either with me or on the ground.
At this point, I am not gonna guess exactly what happened in this case. Mechanical failure could be involved as well. It seems like we can rule out power loss, but maybe not. IOW --- who knows?
A lot of ifs, but it will probably turn out to be a typical small aircraft crash story --- the pilot was overwhelmed. With no survivors and most likely no CVR or FDR, without evidence of in-flight mechanical issues, NTSB will probably just have to give it their best guess.
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Post by beuycek on Jan 27, 2020 16:15:53 GMT -5
At this point, I am not gonna guess exactly what happened in this case.
... right after you said this: The cause will probably be pilot error, fueled by a condition common to pilots known as "get there-itis."and just before this: A lot of ifs, but it will probably turn out to be a typical small aircraft crash story --- the pilot was overwhelmed.LOL! Clown show® rolls on... |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2020 17:00:13 GMT -5
At this point, I am not gonna guess exactly what happened in this case.
... right after you said this: The cause will probably be pilot error, fueled by a condition common to pilots known as "get there-itis."and just before this: A lot of ifs, but it will probably turn out to be a typical small aircraft crash story --- the pilot was overwhelmed.LOL! Clown show® rolls on... Being overwhelmed by continuing to fly in flight conditions you cannot handle IS pilot error, dipshit. Even STARTING a flight in questionable conditions is pilot error.
Keep on proving you don't know what you are talking about.
How long have you had YOUR pilot's license?
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Post by gatr55555 on Jan 27, 2020 17:08:50 GMT -5
Visibility was not terribly good. the entire region was overcast and foggy, though I believe there is reference made out of ATC about VFR. That said, with a low deck, it seems odd to not have followed the natural valley between the SF valley and TO. The chopper was significantly south of it in an area with terrain close to the reported ceiling of 1500ft. Going down into a valley is NOT a good idea. If you are in a valley and the ceiling drops even lower, you are really screwed. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. A perfect outcome would have been for the pilot to tell ATC "I can't see. I am going to find an open area, set this thing down and wait it out." He would have had 8 pissed-off passengers, but they would all be alive to be pissed off.
The good thing about SVFR in a helicopter is that it can fly so slow that the pilot can see and avoid obstacles that a fixed wing aircraft would not have time to avoid. One of the witnesses said he saw and heard the helo flying very low and slow, although it was so foggy that he could not even really describe the helicopter. In order to fly SVR in IFR, both the pilot and the aircraft must be rated for IFR, which brings up another interesting question. Why didn't the guy go ahead and file for IFR? I have to wonder if he was flying over his head, figuratively and literally. Many chopper pilots are VFR-only rated.
The cause will probably be pilot error, fueled by a condition common to pilots known as "get there-itis." Too many pilots think the importance of the trip is worth the risk of not making it. Pilots for hire are sometimes pressured to fly by their clients, even though their own good sense tells them not to fly. Get there-itis is not always fatal, but it can cause some bent airplanes, or some really harrowing white-knuckle experiences. If that is the case, the official NTSB ruling will be something like "continued VFR flight into IFR conditions." A cold clinical phrase for "he was stupid."
If I got a weather briefing from flight service before a planned flight and I heard "VFR flight is not recommended," I scrubbed. I'm not IFR certified and my flights were for pleasure, not self-induced terror. I DO have enough instrument training to hopefully save my ass if somehow I stupidly got myself into clouds, but the keywords are "stupidly" and "hopefully." I'm not suicidal nor would I want to risk innocent people either with me or on the ground.
At this point, I am not gonna guess exactly what happened in this case. Mechanical failure could be involved as well. It seems like we can rule out power loss, but maybe not. IOW --- who knows?
A lot of ifs, but it will probably turn out to be a typical small aircraft crash story --- the pilot was overwhelmed. With no survivors and most likely no CVR or FDR, without evidence of in-flight mechanical issues, NTSB will probably just have to give it their best guess.
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Post by Walter on Jan 27, 2020 17:10:10 GMT -5
Visibility was not terribly good. the entire region was overcast and foggy, though I believe there is reference made out of ATC about VFR. That said, with a low deck, it seems odd to not have followed the natural valley between the SF valley and TO. The chopper was significantly south of it in an area with terrain close to the reported ceiling of 1500ft. Going down into a valley is NOT a good idea. If you are in a valley and the ceiling drops even lower, you are really screwed. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. A perfect outcome would have been for the pilot to tell ATC "I can't see. I am going to find an open area, set this thing down and wait it out." He would have had 8 pissed-off passengers, but they would all be alive to be pissed off.
The good thing about SVFR in a helicopter is that it can fly so slow that the pilot can see and avoid obstacles that a fixed wing aircraft would not have time to avoid. One of the witnesses said he saw and heard the helo flying very low and slow, although it was so foggy that he could not even really describe the helicopter. In order to fly SVR in IFR, both the pilot and the aircraft must be rated for IFR, which brings up another interesting question. Why didn't the guy go ahead and file for IFR? I have to wonder if he was flying over his head, figuratively and literally. Many chopper pilots are VFR-only rated.
The cause will probably be pilot error, fueled by a condition common to pilots known as "get there-itis." Too many pilots think the importance of the trip is worth the risk of not making it. Pilots for hire are sometimes pressured to fly by their clients, even though their own good sense tells them not to fly. Get there-itis is not always fatal, but it can cause some bent airplanes, or some really harrowing white-knuckle experiences. If that is the case, the official NTSB ruling will be something like "continued VFR flight into IFR conditions." A cold clinical phrase for "he was stupid."
If I got a weather briefing from flight service before a planned flight and I heard "VFR flight is not recommended," I scrubbed. I'm not IFR certified and my flights were for pleasure, not self-induced terror. I DO have enough instrument training to hopefully save my ass if somehow I stupidly got myself into clouds, but the keywords are "stupidly" and "hopefully." I'm not suicidal nor would I want to risk innocent people either with me or on the ground.
At this point, I am not gonna guess exactly what happened in this case. Mechanical failure could be involved as well. It seems like we can rule out power loss, but maybe not. IOW --- who knows?
A lot of ifs, but it will probably turn out to be a typical small aircraft crash story --- the pilot was overwhelmed. With no survivors and most likely no CVR or FDR, without evidence of in-flight mechanical issues, NTSB will probably just have to give it their best guess.
I can tell you this. Had I had been VFR only rated, and woke up in SoCal that morning, no way I'd have flown. It was a pretty gloomy day here. |
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Post by gatr55555 on Jan 27, 2020 17:16:17 GMT -5
... right after you said this: The cause will probably be pilot error, fueled by a condition common to pilots known as "get there-itis."and just before this: A lot of ifs, but it will probably turn out to be a typical small aircraft crash story --- the pilot was overwhelmed.LOL! Clown show® rolls on... Being overwhelmed by continuing to fly in flight conditions you cannot handle IS pilot error, dipshit. Even STARTING a flight in questionable conditions is pilot error.
Keep on proving you don't know what you are talking about.
How long have you had YOUR pilot's license?
According to one article the pilot was qualified to instruct in flying in poor flight conditions. |
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Post by mscott59 on Jan 27, 2020 18:01:21 GMT -5
Being overwhelmed by continuing to fly in flight conditions you cannot handle IS pilot error, dipshit. Even STARTING a flight in questionable conditions is pilot error.
Keep on proving you don't know what you are talking about.
How long have you had YOUR pilot's license?
According to one article the pilot was qualified to instruct in flying in poor flight conditions. I just read that. but the 2 chopper pilots I know (at least when I was reporter) both told me that it was extremely rare that they would fly on instruments only, both preferring to have visual points of reference on any flight. I remember covering a drowning up in mt vernon, small town about an hour-30 or so north of columbus. it was winter but a dry day so we took the chopper there to save time. but in the 90 min or so we were there, this low fog rolled thru and our pilot radioed us saying ‘better call someone to drive up’ to get us, because that kind of dampness can freeze on the rotors and you’re history. by the time one of our wagons made it up, that’s exactly what happened on the ground. station had to pay a flatbed tow truck to come get the aircraft and take it back to its hangar. no winter weather in socal this wknd, but fog + mountains doesn’t sound so good either. you wonder if having access to private flying options that you get used to it being ok to take just like driving. I’m guessing none of us are in that kind of place financially but it’s been a day now and the tragedy remains top of mind for me. just hate it. |
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Post by cbisbig on Jan 27, 2020 18:16:41 GMT -5
... right after you said this: The cause will probably be pilot error, fueled by a condition common to pilots known as "get there-itis."and just before this: A lot of ifs, but it will probably turn out to be a typical small aircraft crash story --- the pilot was overwhelmed.LOL! Clown show® rolls on... Being overwhelmed by continuing to fly in flight conditions you cannot handle IS pilot error, dipshit. Even STARTING a flight in questionable conditions is pilot error.
Keep on proving you don't know what you are talking about.
How long have you had YOUR pilot's license?
I was at a customer's house today and he mentioned that his son was a helicopter pilot, he says his son called and told him that those helicopters can basically fly themselves that the pilots are trained to fly on instruments only with no visibility. I heard that Bryant owned the helicopter and if that's true then he probably had his own stand by Pilot. |
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Post by beuycek on Jan 27, 2020 18:33:46 GMT -5
... right after you said this: The cause will probably be pilot error, fueled by a condition common to pilots known as "get there-itis."and just before this: A lot of ifs, but it will probably turn out to be a typical small aircraft crash story --- the pilot was overwhelmed.LOL! Clown show® rolls on... Being overwhelmed by continuing to fly in flight conditions you cannot handle IS pilot error, dipshit. Even STARTING a flight in questionable conditions is pilot error.
Keep on proving you don't know what you are talking about.
How long have you had YOUR pilot's license?
Not surprisingly, you missed the point. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2020 19:54:45 GMT -5
Being overwhelmed by continuing to fly in flight conditions you cannot handle IS pilot error, dipshit. Even STARTING a flight in questionable conditions is pilot error.
Keep on proving you don't know what you are talking about.
How long have you had YOUR pilot's license?
I was at a customer's house today and he mentioned that his son was a helicopter pilot, he says his son called and told him that those helicopters can basically fly themselves that the pilots are trained to fly on instruments only with no visibility. I heard that Bryant owned the helicopter and if that's true then he probably had his own stand by Pilot. No, not all pilots are instrument rated, and autopilots are designed to hold a steady altitude or heading. You would not be using autopilot that close to the ground in an area of low visibility that may require instant maneuvering. No, they can't "fly themselves." If you are 10,000 AGL in the clouds where there is nothing to hit, using the AP to maintain control and reduce pilot workload is a great idea, IF you are also instrument rated. ATC has no way of knowing ahead of time if a pilot is instrument rated or not. If he files an instrument flight plan, he is expected to know what he is doing. If he goes SVFR, it is only assumed he and the aircraft are IFR rated.
Even police helicopters were not flying at that time. They knew it was too risky.
The helicopter did not belong to Kobe Bryant.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2020 20:16:13 GMT -5
Being overwhelmed by continuing to fly in flight conditions you cannot handle IS pilot error, dipshit. Even STARTING a flight in questionable conditions is pilot error.
Keep on proving you don't know what you are talking about.
How long have you had YOUR pilot's license?
Not surprisingly, you missed the point. I said the exact same thing using different wording. Did YOU have a point? No ................ you didn't.
Keep on trolling, proving you are clueless.
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