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Post by DrSchadenfreude on Sept 13, 2020 18:56:15 GMT -5
No. My parents were proud of my work to make the world a better place. How about yours?  They were and they are as both are still living. How proud were your parents when you publicly referred to your daughter as slow? And how did that help make the world a better place? You're dead wrong, Harry. I have never referred to either of my daughters as "slow," nor did I ever sit in a jacuzzi with my daughters -- except with my wife during family vacations at resorts in Mexico, when we were all playing at the resort swimming pools, with swim trunks on, etc. Ra mey and Fred made up that slander. If you're such a reasonable guy, why do you keep repeating Ra mey and Fred's perverse horseshit about a forum member here? Explain. |
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Post by oujour76 on Sept 13, 2020 19:29:44 GMT -5
They were and they are as both are still living. How proud were your parents when you publicly referred to your daughter as slow? And how did that help make the world a better place? You're dead wrong, Harry. I have never referred to either of my daughters as "slow," nor did I ever sit in a jacuzzi with my daughters -- except with my wife during family vacations at resorts in Mexico, when we were all playing at the resort swimming pools, with swim trunks on, etc. Ra mey and Fred made up that slander. If you're such a reasonable guy, why do you keep repeating Ra mey and Fred's perverse horseshit about a forum member here? Explain. Liar. You called your daughter slow on this forum. But, I’ll make you a deal. You stop lying about me and I’ll stop telling the truth about you. |
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Post by DrSchadenfreude on Sept 13, 2020 22:18:19 GMT -5
You're dead wrong, Harry. I have never referred to either of my daughters as "slow," nor did I ever sit in a jacuzzi with my daughters -- except with my wife during family vacations at resorts in Mexico, when we were all playing at the resort swimming pools, with swim trunks on, etc. Ra mey and Fred made up that slander. If you're such a reasonable guy, why do you keep repeating Ra mey and Fred's perverse horseshit about a forum member here? Explain. Liar. You called your daughter slow on this forum. But, I’ll make you a deal. You stop lying about me and I’ll stop telling the truth about you. Harry, you are a lying dog. You know it, and I know it. You have CONSISTENTLY propagated disinformation on this forum for the past 12 years that I've been a member here-- about everything from climate change to Trickle Down economics, the 2009 Stimulus Recovery Act, Obamacare, and Trump's innumerable crimes against the United States, including Russia-gate. You have also consistently refused to confront the wing nuts around here about their moronic, racist horseshit -- Mutt, Fred, Sh-ard-shit, Ra mey, et.al.-- while incessantly covering Trump's crooked ass. Your disparagement of the BLM movement is one particularly disgraceful example. Take a cue from Nick Saban, dude. You're always on the wrong side of history. In fact, I consider you the chief enabler of disinformation on this forum, because you always do it in the disguise of a superficially reasonable, middle-of-the-road person. BTW, how's your Antarctic ice cap growing lately? |
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Post by oujour76 on Sept 13, 2020 22:40:21 GMT -5
Liar. You called your daughter slow on this forum. But, I’ll make you a deal. You stop lying about me and I’ll stop telling the truth about you. Harry, you are a lying dog. You know it, and I know it. You have CONSISTENTLY propagated disinformation on this forum for the past 12 years that I've been a member here-- about everything from climate change to Trickle Down economics, the 2009 Stimulus Recovery Act, Obamacare, and Trump's innumerable crimes against the United States, including Russia-gate. You have also consistently refused to confront the wing nuts around here about their moronic, racist horseshit -- Mutt, Fred, Sh-ard-shit, Ra mey, et.al.-- while incessantly covering Trump's crooked ass. Your disparagement of the BLM movement is one particularly disgraceful example. Take a cue from Nick Saban, dude. You're always on the wrong side of history. In fact, I consider you the chief enabler of disinformation on this forum, because you always do it in the disguise of a superficially reasonable, middle-of-the-road person. BTW, how's your Antarctic ice cap growing lately? Yawn. As always, in your head 24/7/365. |
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Post by oujour76 on Sept 14, 2020 7:53:05 GMT -5
Tried to stifle political messages by players. Taking a knee turns out to have been a simple, non-intrusive protest that occurred before the game by one player. The NFL, not the players, first turned it into a political thing. They moved to quash it, league-wide, in a direct reaction to the rumblings of the far right and Trump. Now they realize they F-d it all up and handled it poorly. What you are seeing now is the result of their myopic views on the subject then. No argument that the league is run by idiots. That said, did you feel this strongly about the myopic NFL when they wouldn’t allow a team to wear a decal honoring the 5 cops who were murdered in Dallas? Or when they threatened to fine players who wore cleats specially designed to honor the victims of 9-11? If so, that’s great and thanks for being consistent. If not, why not? Now, to return to my original point that the league would be wise to listen to booing fans, here is why: www.outkick.com/nfl-ratings-drop-tank/Sports is entertainment and in the entertainment world it’s a dumb business model to piss off your paying customers. The fans aren’t being bigoted, they are saying enough is enough. |
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Post by Walter on Sept 14, 2020 10:19:48 GMT -5
Tried to stifle political messages by players. Taking a knee turns out to have been a simple, non-intrusive protest that occurred before the game by one player. The NFL, not the players, first turned it into a political thing. They moved to quash it, league-wide, in a direct reaction to the rumblings of the far right and Trump. Now they realize they F-d it all up and handled it poorly. What you are seeing now is the result of their myopic views on the subject then. No argument that the league is run by idiots. That said, did you feel this strongly about the myopic NFL when they wouldn’t allow a team to wear a decal honoring the 5 cops who were murdered in Dallas? Or when they threatened to fine players who wore cleats specially designed to honor the victims of 9-11? If so, that’s great and thanks for being consistent. If not, why not? Now, to return to my original point that the league would be wise to listen to booing fans, here is why: www.outkick.com/nfl-ratings-drop-tank/Sports is entertainment and in the entertainment world it’s a dumb business model to piss off your paying customers. The fans aren’t being bigoted, they are saying enough is enough. The NFL has the right to police their brand, no doubt. I have no recollection of the events you list, but will note a difference in reaction: a fine vs blackballed out of the league. See that as equivalent, do you? ColinK might gladly have embraced paying a fine every week as testament to his determination. But that is not what happened. Trump and the redhats called him a thug who should be fired and the NFL caved to their own principles. So again I ask...who first elevated the issue and turned it political? The players or management? |
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Post by DrSchadenfreude on Sept 14, 2020 10:54:44 GMT -5
No argument that the league is run by idiots. That said, did you feel this strongly about the myopic NFL when they wouldn’t allow a team to wear a decal honoring the 5 cops who were murdered in Dallas? Or when they threatened to fine players who wore cleats specially designed to honor the victims of 9-11? If so, that’s great and thanks for being consistent. If not, why not? Now, to return to my original point that the league would be wise to listen to booing fans, here is why: www.outkick.com/nfl-ratings-drop-tank/Sports is entertainment and in the entertainment world it’s a dumb business model to piss off your paying customers. The fans aren’t being bigoted, they are saying enough is enough. The NFL has the right to police their brand, no doubt. I have no recollection of the events you list, but will note a difference in reaction: a fine vs blackballed out of the league. See that as equivalent, do you? ColinK might gladly have embraced paying a fine every week as testament to his determination. But that is not what happened. Trump and the redhats called him a thug who should be fired and the NFL caved to their own principles. So again I ask...who first elevated the issue and turned it political? The players or management? Il Douche directly pressured the NFL owners to suppress the BLM movement. He told Jerry Jones and the owners that, "It lifts me," to attack Colin Kaepernick. For Trump, it was all about promoting Donald Trump. And, as Bob Woodward's tapes showed on 60 Minutes, Trump ridiculed Woodward for suggesting that he, Woodward, and other white guys, needed to "come out of our caves" to acknowledge the origibs of the BLM protests. In other words, Trump, like Harry, is flat out denying the reality of systemic racism in many municipal police departments in the U.S. It's similar to Harry, and Trump's, denial of climate change, Russia-gate, etc. |
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Post by oujour76 on Sept 14, 2020 11:30:24 GMT -5
No argument that the league is run by idiots. That said, did you feel this strongly about the myopic NFL when they wouldn’t allow a team to wear a decal honoring the 5 cops who were murdered in Dallas? Or when they threatened to fine players who wore cleats specially designed to honor the victims of 9-11? If so, that’s great and thanks for being consistent. If not, why not? Now, to return to my original point that the league would be wise to listen to booing fans, here is why: www.outkick.com/nfl-ratings-drop-tank/Sports is entertainment and in the entertainment world it’s a dumb business model to piss off your paying customers. The fans aren’t being bigoted, they are saying enough is enough. The NFL has the right to police their brand, no doubt. I have no recollection of the events you list, but will note a difference in reaction: a fine vs blackballed out of the league. See that as equivalent, do you? ColinK might gladly have embraced paying a fine every week as testament to his determination. But that is not what happened. Trump and the redhats called him a thug who should be fired and the NFL caved to their own principles. So again I ask...who first elevated the issue and turned it political? The players or management?
Not surprising you have no recollection of the events listed.
Also not surprising you have completely ignored the main point...that customers (fans) have rights and if the NFL and its players aren't careful many fans will exercise their right to vote with their feet. And, if it happens, the NFL and the players will have nobody to blame but themselves.
Noto sure what what you mean by the NFL caving to its "principles" re: Kaepernick. If you mean their initial reaction, imo that was entirely predictable.
But, then again...what do I know? I'm just a guy who has done business with several NFL teams and done licensing deals with the league itself over the course of my career.
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Post by oujour76 on Sept 14, 2020 11:36:51 GMT -5
The NFL has the right to police their brand, no doubt. I have no recollection of the events you list, but will note a difference in reaction: a fine vs blackballed out of the league. See that as equivalent, do you? ColinK might gladly have embraced paying a fine every week as testament to his determination. But that is not what happened. Trump and the redhats called him a thug who should be fired and the NFL caved to their own principles. So again I ask...who first elevated the issue and turned it political? The players or management? Il Douche directly pressured the NFL owners to suppress the BLM movement. He told Jerry Jones and the owners that, "It lifts me," to attack Colin Kaepernick. For Trump, it was all about promoting Donald Trump. And, as Bob Woodward's tapes showed on 60 Minutes, Trump ridiculed Woodward for suggesting that he, Woodward, and other white guys, needed to "come out of our caves" to acknowledge the origibs of the BLM protests. In other words, Trump, like Harry, is flat out denying the reality of systemic racism in many municipal police departments in the U.S. It's similar to Harry, and Trump's, denial of climate change, Russia-gate, etc. |
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Post by Walter on Sept 14, 2020 12:24:37 GMT -5
The NFL has the right to police their brand, no doubt. I have no recollection of the events you list, but will note a difference in reaction: a fine vs blackballed out of the league. See that as equivalent, do you? ColinK might gladly have embraced paying a fine every week as testament to his determination. But that is not what happened. Trump and the redhats called him a thug who should be fired and the NFL caved to their own principles. So again I ask...who first elevated the issue and turned it political? The players or management?
Not surprising you have no recollection of the events listed.
Also not surprising you have completely ignored the main point...that customers (fans) have rights and if the NFL and its players aren't careful many fans will exercise their right to vote with their feet. And, if it happens, the NFL and the players will have nobody to blame but themselves.
Noto sure what what you mean by the NFL caving to its "principles" re: Kaepernick. If you mean their initial reaction, imo that was entirely predictable.
But, then again...what do I know? I'm just a guy who has done business with several NFL teams and done licensing deals with the league itself over the course of my career.
Totally agree. Customers can vote with their feet. The NFL's problem is they alienated a ton of their customers by caving to Trump. Now they are trying to pretend they give a shit when it is clear they do not. And then, seeing that, the players have stepped it up, and here we are. Entirely predictable result begun by the NFL making a political decision, a decision they should never have made and they now admit was wrong. You can cry and whine the politicization should not be so in sports, and in a perfect world, with fewer idiots in upper mgt of the NFL, I would agree with you. But that is not where we are. In a strange way, this reminds me of long hair and beards in baseball BITD. It was such a taboo to conservatives who saw it as the invasion of the leftist hippies into baseball, and the same lame arguments were made about socio/political statements being made on the field. It was bullshit then, and it is bullshit now. |
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Post by oujour76 on Sept 14, 2020 12:41:39 GMT -5
Not surprising you have no recollection of the events listed.
Also not surprising you have completely ignored the main point...that customers (fans) have rights and if the NFL and its players aren't careful many fans will exercise their right to vote with their feet. And, if it happens, the NFL and the players will have nobody to blame but themselves.
Noto sure what what you mean by the NFL caving to its "principles" re: Kaepernick. If you mean their initial reaction, imo that was entirely predictable.
But, then again...what do I know? I'm just a guy who has done business with several NFL teams and done licensing deals with the league itself over the course of my career.
Totally agree. Customers can vote with their feet. The NFL's problem is they alienated a ton of their customers by caving to Trump. Now they are trying to pretend they give a shit when it is clear they do not. And then, seeing that, the players have stepped it up, and here we are. Entirely predictable result begun by the NFL making a political decision, a decision they should never have made and they now admit was wrong. You can cry and whine the politicization should not be so in sports, and in a perfect world, with fewer idiots in upper mgt of the NFL, I would agree with you. But that is not where we are. In a strange way, this reminds me of long hair and beards in baseball BITD. It was such a taboo to conservatives who saw it as the invasion of the leftist hippies into baseball, and the same lame arguments were made about socio/political statements being made on the field. It was bullshit then, and it is bullshit now.
Where you and I disagree most is the idea that the league shouldn't have made the decision (re: Kaepernick) in the first place. IMO, your job site isn't the place for a political protest. Where Goodell and the NFL got it wrong imo is being wishy washy. For a group that has PR folks out the wazoo, their response was amateur at best. Their stand was to have no stand.
As for comparing today to beards in baseball in the 70's...I've seen bad analogies before, but that one is in a class by itself. 
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Post by Walter on Sept 14, 2020 13:11:04 GMT -5
Totally agree. Customers can vote with their feet. The NFL's problem is they alienated a ton of their customers by caving to Trump. Now they are trying to pretend they give a shit when it is clear they do not. And then, seeing that, the players have stepped it up, and here we are. Entirely predictable result begun by the NFL making a political decision, a decision they should never have made and they now admit was wrong. You can cry and whine the politicization should not be so in sports, and in a perfect world, with fewer idiots in upper mgt of the NFL, I would agree with you. But that is not where we are. In a strange way, this reminds me of long hair and beards in baseball BITD. It was such a taboo to conservatives who saw it as the invasion of the leftist hippies into baseball, and the same lame arguments were made about socio/political statements being made on the field. It was bullshit then, and it is bullshit now.
Where you and I disagree most is the idea that the league shouldn't have made the decision (re: Kaepernick) in the first place. IMO, your job site isn't the place for a political protest. Where Goodell and the NFL got it wrong imo is being wishy washy. For a group that has PR folks out the wazoo, their response was amateur at best. Their stand was to have no stand.
As for comparing today to beards in baseball in the 70's...I've seen bad analogies before, but that one is in a class by itself.
I am a master of bad analogy, so thank you. I think we agree. The NFL let the issue get outside their purview and allowed outsiders to drive the bus. Once they lost control, they were screwed. They should have huddled with CK early and came to an agreement internally about what to do that served all interests. |
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Post by oujour76 on Sept 14, 2020 13:55:37 GMT -5
Perfect world or imperfect world, sports shouldn't be dominated by politics. I fully understand there is some crossover between sports and politics/social issues. But, what we have today is politics overshadowing the game itself, and that can't stand long term. Not only will fans get alienated, so too will many players. Nobody wins in that scenario...not the league, the players or the fans.
Where you and I disagree most is the idea that the league shouldn't have made the decision (re: Kaepernick) in the first place. IMO, your job site isn't the place for a political protest. Where Goodell and the NFL got it wrong imo is being wishy washy. For a group that has PR folks out the wazoo, their response was amateur at best. Their stand was to have no stand.
As for comparing today to beards in baseball in the 70's...I've seen bad analogies before, but that one is in a class by itself.
I am a master of bad analogy, so thank you. I think we agree. The NFL let the issue get outside their purview and allowed outsiders to drive the bus. Once they lost control, they were screwed. They should have huddled with CK early and came to an agreement internally about what to do that served all interests. |
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Post by Walter on Sept 14, 2020 15:49:31 GMT -5
I am a master of bad analogy, so thank you. I think we agree. The NFL let the issue get outside their purview and allowed outsiders to drive the bus. Once they lost control, they were screwed. They should have huddled with CK early and came to an agreement internally about what to do that served all interests. Stay in locker rm. as solution is your opinion. Others would disagree, claiming it to be a personal statement prior to the game not unlike Tebow kneeling...and that is where the NFL (and you) fall into the trap of letting outside forces dictate policy based on money...of what sells and not principle. Make Tebow kneel in the locker room and you are consistent. Let him do it on the sideline and you aren't. Then what? FTR, I have no problem with either TT or CK kneeling. Why you have a prob with one and not the other is a 'you' thing, IMO. |
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Post by oujour76 on Sept 14, 2020 16:01:29 GMT -5
I wouldn't have huddled with Kaepernick other than to hear what he was trying to accomplish. He would have no input into the final decision, which imo, should have been a policy adopted by the league and passed down to the owners to implement. And that policy (for me) would have been no kneeling during the anthem. If you don't want to stand for the anthem, stay in the locker room. If the team wants to let players join hands on the field 5 minutes prior to the anthem, have at it. Players have rights, I get it...but, so too do employers. At the end of the day, it's still a workplace and I think many people lose sight of that. Stay in locker rm. as solution is your opinion. Others would disagree, claiming it to be a personal statement prior to the game not unlike Tebow kneeling...and that is where the NFL (and you) fall into the trap of letting outside forces dictate policy based on money...of what sells and not principle. Make Tebow kneel in the locker room and you are consistent. Let him do it on the sideline and you aren't. Then what? FTR, I have no problem with either TT or CK kneeling. Why you have a prob with one and not the other is a 'you' thing, IMO. |
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