The Real Origins of the Religious Right-- Segregation

[DrSchadenfreude]

The Real Origins of the Religious Right

They’ll tell you it was abortion. Sorry, the historical record’s clear: It was segregation.

www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/05/religious-right-real-origins-107133/

[Walter]

With their votes for TFP, the RR has made it abundantly clear what they stand for, and there ain't much true religion anywhere to be found. But there is a shitload of negative identity politics.

[arkon]

It amazes me sometimes how religious right wingers believe their savior approves of a lot of the crap they say and do.
I'll betcha more than a few of them are having extramarital affairs or they're child abusers (or worse) or they cheat on their taxes...or claim ketchup is a good enough veggie for school lunches.
Wonder how many really think about -- or even care -- What Would Jesus Do?
Also, as alleged defenders of the constitution, you'd think they'd want to "separate" their religion from their politics.

[daleko]

Mar 23, 2021 6:27:56 GMT -5 arkon said:

It amazes me sometimes how religious right wingers believe their savior approves of a lot of the crap they say and do.
I'll betcha more than a few of them are having extramarital affairs or they're child abusers (or worse) or they cheat on their taxes...or claim ketchup is a good enough veggie for school lunches.
Wonder how many really think about -- or even care -- What Would Jesus Do?
Also, as alleged defenders of the constitution, you'd think they'd want to "separate" their religion from their politics.

It's amazing what man created religions have done and do. 

[arkon]

Mar 24, 2021 15:19:06 GMT -5 daleko said:

Mar 23, 2021 6:27:56 GMT -5 arkon said:

It amazes me sometimes how religious right wingers believe their savior approves of a lot of the crap they say and do.
I'll betcha more than a few of them are having extramarital affairs or they're child abusers (or worse) or they cheat on their taxes...or claim ketchup is a good enough veggie for school lunches.
Wonder how many really think about -- or even care -- What Would Jesus Do?
Also, as alleged defenders of the constitution, you'd think they'd want to "separate" their religion from their politics.

It's amazing what man created religions have done and do. 

I rather think it's the other way around: bad people faking piety and they're in it only for the $$ they can con gullible people out of... that and the sexual perks.
Ftr, I'm not talking about real believers who do what Jesus would do. The con artists are CINOs -- C = Christian, you know the rest.

[daleko]

Mar 24, 2021 15:29:50 GMT -5 arkon said:

Mar 24, 2021 15:19:06 GMT -5 daleko said:

It's amazing what man created religions have done and do. 

I rather think it's the other way around: bad people faking piety and they're in it only for the $$ they can con gullible people out of... that and the sexual perks.
Ftr, I'm not talking about real believers who do what Jesus would do. The con artists are CINOs -- C = Christian, you know the rest.

I'm talking about all of it. Man made. Some of it benefits a polite society, some of it is pure bullshit. But it's all made up by man. That's the real amazement, how it all evolved since the dawn of man to today's splinter religions, headlined by the Big 3. Clickbait Willie's post of Biden going to church. Who cares? He gets smudged. Who cares? Who cares politically for both. But, upon further thought, what is politics if not man made? So maybe there is a link.

[DrSchadenfreude]

Mar 24, 2021 15:42:21 GMT -5 daleko said:

Mar 24, 2021 15:29:50 GMT -5 arkon said:

I rather think it's the other way around: bad people faking piety and they're in it only for the $$ they can con gullible people out of... that and the sexual perks.
Ftr, I'm not talking about real believers who do what Jesus would do. The con artists are CINOs -- C = Christian, you know the rest.

I'm talking about all of it. Man made. Some of it benefits a polite society, some of it is pure bullshit. But it's all made up by man. That's the real amazement, how it all evolved since the dawn of man to today's splinter religions, headlined by the Big 3. Clickbait Willie's post of Biden going to church. Who cares? He gets smudged. Who cares? Who cares politically for both. But, upon further thought, what is politics if not man made? So maybe there is a link.

Sophomoric reductionism.

Religions have anthropological, sociological, and psychological characteristics, but that, in itself, doesn't prove that they are not Divinely inspired.

Atheism, itself, is predicated on a leap of faith-- Comtean positivism-- the a priori assumption that there is nothing metaphysical in the cosmos.

[daleko]

Mar 24, 2021 16:18:05 GMT -5 DrSchadenfreude said:

Mar 24, 2021 15:42:21 GMT -5 daleko said:

I'm talking about all of it. Man made. Some of it benefits a polite society, some of it is pure bullshit. But it's all made up by man. That's the real amazement, how it all evolved since the dawn of man to today's splinter religions, headlined by the Big 3. Clickbait Willie's post of Biden going to church. Who cares? He gets smudged. Who cares? Who cares politically for both. But, upon further thought, what is politics if not man made? So maybe there is a link.

Religions have anthropological, sociological, and psychological characteristics, but that, in itself, doesn't prove that they are not Divinely inspired. Or that they are.

Atheism, itself, is predicated on a leap of faith-- Comtean positivism-- the a priori assumption that there is nothing metaphysical in the cosmos. Not what I posted about. 

Mr Clickbait Willie, read what I posted. I spoke to man made religions. Doesn't mean there isn't a creator. One doesn't necessarily flow from the other. And a creator doesn't necessarily need made made religion to exist or even cares. 

As I further posted some of religion, as created by man, benefits a polite society. That's some. Religions have had tens of thousands of years to refine and advance their story. Believed in faith by each group of believers.

I don't care whether he smudges or not. Whether he is aligned w the Church of Rome or its splinter the EO. Doesn't impact how I will judge Biden's role as POTUS or my support for him as my POTUS.

[DrSchadenfreude]

Mar 24, 2021 16:43:59 GMT -5 daleko said:

Mar 24, 2021 16:18:05 GMT -5 DrSchadenfreude said:

Religions have anthropological, sociological, and psychological characteristics, but that, in itself, doesn't prove that they are not Divinely inspired. Or that they are.

Atheism, itself, is predicated on a leap of faith-- Comtean positivism-- the a priori assumption that there is nothing metaphysical in the cosmos. Not what I posted about. 

Mr Clickbait Willie, read what I posted. I spoke to man made religions. Doesn't mean there isn't a creator. One doesn't necessarily flow from the other. And a creator doesn't necessarily need made made religion to exist or even cares. 

As I further posted some of religion, as created by man, benefits a polite society. That's some. Religions have had tens of thousands of years to refine and advance their story. Believed in faith by each group of believers.

I don't care whether he smudges or not. Whether he is aligned w the Church of Rome or its splinter the EO. Doesn't impact how I will judge Biden's role as POTUS or my support for him as my POTUS.

You need to study the true history of the Great Schism, dude.  You're still as clueless as ever about the history of the Church.

There were Five Patriarchates of the ancient Church during the first millennium of Church history-- at Jerusalem, Antioch, Alexandria, Constantinople, and Rome.

During those first thousand years, the Church was governed by the Great Ecumenical Councils of all bishops, including the Bishop (Pope) of Rome.

It was never a monarchy ruled by the Bishop of Rome-- that fiction was invented by the Roman Popes after 1054 A.D.

In fact, Rome was a cow pasture after being conquered by the Ostrogoths in the 5th century.  Constantinople had become the de facto capital of the Roman Empire.

The Great Ecumenical Councils of the Church all convened in the East, at the behest of the (Byzantine) Roman Emperors, to resolve theological and canonical issues -- at Nicea, (325 A.D.) Constantinople, (381) Ephesus, (431) Chalcedon, (451) Constantinople, (553) Constantinople, (680) and Nicea (787.)  The Bishop of Rome was invited by the Emperor to all of the Great Ecumenical Councils, but he had essentially the same status as all bishops of the ancient Church.  If you don't believe me, read the letters of Pope Gregory the Great.

In 1054 A.D., the Bishop of Roman separated his Western Patriarchate from the other four Patriarchates of the ancient Church-- at Jerusalem, Antioch, Alexandria, and Constantinople-- and established a monarchical Papacy (and College of Cardinals) in Western Europe.  It was un-canonical.

These four Patriarchates of the Church are what you refer to as "EO splinter groups."

In other words, you drank the Papal kool-aid from the Vatican's Propaganda department (which is, literally, where the term "propaganda" originated.)

[daleko]

Mar 24, 2021 17:45:25 GMT -5 DrSchadenfreude said:

In other words, you drank the Papal kool-aid from the Vatican's Propaganda department (which is, literally, where the term "propaganda" originated.)

Drank no Kool-aid. and don't care. Just messen w you.

But you confirmed what I believe, all man made. Artifacts going back over 50,000 years suggest man made religions. It seems to be part of the human experience. A human desire. To explain the unexplained. To make the natural, supernatural. To create a social group. To alligne so there is no expulsion from the group. Sometimes the only group. With all of its inconsistencies. Additionally, that's not to say it all has been bad. Many positives. And some not so positive. And it's all an individual choice. It's all OK by me.

But to suggest that because a person smudges, he is the better person to be POTUS, for me, is misguided.

[oujour76]

Mar 24, 2021 17:45:25 GMT -5 DrSchadenfreude said:

Mar 24, 2021 16:43:59 GMT -5 daleko said:

Mr Clickbait Willie, read what I posted. I spoke to man made religions. Doesn't mean there isn't a creator. One doesn't necessarily flow from the other. And a creator doesn't necessarily need made made religion to exist or even cares. 

As I further posted some of religion, as created by man, benefits a polite society. That's some. Religions have had tens of thousands of years to refine and advance their story. Believed in faith by each group of believers.

I don't care whether he smudges or not. Whether he is aligned w the Church of Rome or its splinter the EO. Doesn't impact how I will judge Biden's role as POTUS or my support for him as my POTUS.

You need to study the true history of the Great Schism, dude.  You're still as clueless as ever about the history of the Church.

There were Five Patriarchates of the ancient Church during the first millennium of Church history-- at Jerusalem, Antioch, Alexandria, Constantinople, and Rome.

During those first thousand years, the Church was governed by the Great Ecumenical Councils of all bishops, including the Bishop (Pope) of Rome.

It was never a monarchy ruled by the Bishop of Rome-- that fiction was invented by the Roman Popes after 1054 A.D.

In fact, Rome was a cow pasture after being conquered by the Ostrogoths in the 5th century.  Constantinople had become the de facto capital of the Roman Empire.

The Great Ecumenical Councils of the Church all convened in the East, at the behest of the (Byzantine) Roman Emperors, to resolve theological and canonical issues -- at Nicea, (325 A.D.) Constantinople, (381) Ephesus, (431) Chalcedon, (451) Constantinople, (553) Constantinople, (680) and Nicea (787.)  The Bishop of Rome was invited by the Emperor to all of the Great Ecumenical Councils, but he had essentially the same status as all bishops of the ancient Church.  If you don't believe me, read the letters of Pope Gregory the Great.

In 1054 A.D., the Bishop of Roman separated his Western Patriarchate from the other four Patriarchates of the ancient Church-- at Jerusalem, Antioch, Alexandria, and Constantinople-- and established a monarchical Papacy (and College of Cardinals) in Western Europe.  It was un-canonical.

These four Patriarchates of the Church are what you refer to as "EO splinter groups."

In other words, you drank the Papal kool-aid from the Vatican's Propaganda department (which is, literally, where the term "propaganda" originated.)

Oh joy. More nonsense about the “true church.”

[DrSchadenfreude]

Mar 24, 2021 19:30:31 GMT -5 daleko said:

Mar 24, 2021 17:45:25 GMT -5 DrSchadenfreude said:

In other words, you drank the Papal kool-aid from the Vatican's Propaganda department (which is, literally, where the term "propaganda" originated.)

Drank no Kool-aid. and don't care. Just messen w you.

But you confirmed what I believe, all man made. Artifacts going back over 50,000 years suggest man made religions. It seems to be part of the human experience. A human desire. To explain the unexplained. To make the natural, supernatural. To create a social group. To alligne so there is no expulsion from the group. Sometimes the only group. With all of its inconsistencies. Additionally, that's not to say it all has been bad. Many positives. And some not so positive. And it's all an individual choice. It's all OK by me.

But to suggest that because a person smudges, he is the better person to be POTUS, for me, is misguided.

Of course, as part of any culture, we can say that religion is "man made."

But, are you maintaining that it is not, possibly, a cultural manifestation of a Divine revelation-- a "theophany" (in Greek?)

As a concrete example from the foundational Christian scriptures, and from the oral traditions of the Apostles of the Church, (which preceded the writing of any Christian scriptures) are you saying that the Holy Spirit did NOT descend upon the Apostles in Jerusalem at the first Pentecost-- as described in detail in St. Luke's First Century text, the Acts of the Apostles?

And, if so, how do you know this?  Explain.

As for the Catholicism of John F. Kennedy and Joe Biden, I do believe that it has played an important role in their humanitarian political values -- e.g., JFK's push to save humanity from nuclear annihilation and the war mongering military-industrial complex that murdered him, and Biden's interest in uplifting the working poor.

Ash Wednesday services are merely a ritual of the broader theoria and praxis of Catholicism.

(And, incidentally, the basic theology of Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy is almost identical, since they were parts of the same original Church for 1,000 years!  Their differences are mainly political and administrative-- along with a few theological innovations introduced by the Papacy after 1054 A.D.--like celibacy of the priesthood, Papal Infallibility, etc.)

[daleko]

Mar 24, 2021 21:02:18 GMT -5 DrSchadenfreude said:

Mar 24, 2021 19:30:31 GMT -5 daleko said:

Drank no Kool-aid. and don't care. Just messen w you.

But you confirmed what I believe, all man made. Artifacts going back over 50,000 years suggest man made religions. It seems to be part of the human experience. A human desire. To explain the unexplained. To make the natural, supernatural. To create a social group. To align so there is no expulsion from the group. Sometimes the only group. With all of its inconsistencies. Additionally, that's not to say it all has been bad. Many positives. And some not so positive. And it's all an individual choice. It's all OK by me.

But to suggest that because a person smudges, he is the better person to be POTUS, for me, is misguided.

Of course, as part of any culture, we can say that religion is "man made."

But, are you maintaining that it is not, possibly, a cultural manifestation of a Divine revelation-- a "theophany" (in Greek?) Nope

As a concrete example from the foundational Christian scriptures, and from the oral traditions of the Apostles of the Church, (which preceded the writing of any Christian scriptures) are you saying that the Holy Spirit did NOT descend upon the Apostles in Jerusalem at the first Pentecost-- as described in detail in St. Luke's First Century text, the Acts of the Apostles? My view below.

And, if so, how do you know this?  Explain. I don't "KNOW" it any more or less than what anybody else knows. It reads to me as a metaphor for everyone. The Bible contains many rear view, self sustaining stories. All well written and translated w adjustments over the many years.

(And, incidentally, the basic theology of Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy is almost identical, since they were parts of the same original Church for 1,000 years!  Their differences are mainly political and administrative-- along with a few theological innovations introduced by the Papacy after 1054 A.D.--like celibacy of the priesthood, Papal Infallibility, etc.) I understand that. Like I said, I was just messen w you for grins.

There is little that is impossible when dealing w the history of mankind especially if one goes back 1, 2, 5, 10 or 15,000 years ago. And as I noted the social fabric of religion has done much good, along w the NSG. And because I respect your belief in whatever you want to believe, I'll choose not to create a debate, a debate I have no interest in or passion for.

There was a time when I looked at the evolution of religion in man as a natural or selective advantage or perhaps a hardwired gene that predisposes us to seek a reason for the unexplainable. BUT no longer today. We've only begun to understand the complexities of the human mind. You, more so than others, understand that. Is there a genetic selection in favor of people who are willing to believe in religion? Is it a powerful survival mechanism? Maybe yes to all but that doesn't mean there is an active role by a creative center, ground zero, so to speak. Unfortunately, today, we can't discuss the path religion has taken, w another higher form of life being. Perhaps from another planet, of which there may be billions. What was their path? Did they have a "Christ" moment? Or "Allah". Or "Abraham"? Again no longer today.

The Pentecost story has always been a metaphor to me, aligning a higher power to everyone who chooses. As opposed to that knowledge transmitting to a select few. We've discussed this. It is all self sustaining. Doesn't mean it's bad or that it isn't beneficial but it also doesn't mean creator driven.

My intrusion was based on your perceived value a POTUS has being a member of the Church of Rome V mine. I don't care if he attends a church or not. If others do, that's OK by me. I don't share that view. Maybe his alignment or conformation is what get election wins today. <shrug> Doesn't get my vote.  

[DrSchadenfreude]

Daleko,

    Regarding translations, if you look at extant texts of the Hebrew Torah, there have been almost zero translation errors or alterations over many centuries!  Hebrew scribes have always believed that altering a single letter of the Torah could, literally, alter the course of world history.

    And there are strange aspects of the Torah text that defy explanation as a mere human construct-- e.g., computer analysis of equidistant letter sequences.

     Are you referring to Bart Ehrman's theories about New Testament translations, from Chapel Hill?  Elaine Pagels?  There are serious problems with their work, IMO.  (Both of them are alumni of the Princeton Theological Seminary.)

    As for Biden, I don't think his Catholicism is a political act.  My take is that he is a sincere Catholic, with a worldview similar to that of Pope Francis.  (Incidentally, Francis has a graduate degree in chemistry, and accepts Darwinian evolutionary theory.)