Dodgers try the unconventional

[Walter]

The Dodger pitching staff has been a medical disaster this season. They have had to call up and rely on a number of talented, but very young pitchers to fill in for the losses 3 or 4 projected starters when the season began.
They may be using as many as 6 pitchers who were in the minors last season in the post season.
That's gotten them to start experimenting.

Dave Roberts and PC Mark Prior are trying out the notion of an "opener" to pitch the first inning and then bringing in the projected starter in games where the younger pitchers will throw.
The idea is to put a seasoned reliever to deal with what normally are the hottest hitters in any ML lineup, the first 3+ batters. That allows the young 'starter' to focus on the middle of the order. For the kids with little ML experience, it's a chance to get settled and pitching to the back end of the lineup to start the game.

The other idea they are toying with is what Roberts calls "dual starters", which puts two of the younger kids back to back in the same game after the 'opener', the idea that if they pitch well, they only need to pitch 3-4 innings, which both protects their arms and takes some pressure off them to go long in the game. If both do well, they may not even need any more bullpen help, because their arms will be fresher in the late innings. It also saves bullpen arms to back up the traditional starters like Kershaw who, at his age, is only expected to go 6+.

All interesting, new ideas that could really alter how teams organize the game.

[oujour76]

Sept 23, 2023 11:54:15 GMT -5 Walter said:

The Dodger pitching staff has been a medical disaster this season. They have had to call up and rely on a number of talented, but very young pitchers to fill in for the losses 3 or 4 projected starters when the season began.
They may be using as many as 6 pitchers who were in the minors last season in the post season.
That's gotten them to start experimenting.

Dave Roberts and PC Mark Prior are trying out the notion of an "opener" to pitch the first inning and then bringing in the projected starter in games where the younger pitchers will throw.
The idea is to put a seasoned reliever to deal with what normally are the hottest hitters in any ML lineup, the first 3+ batters. That allows the young 'starter' to focus on the middle of the order. For the kids with little ML experience, it's a chance to get settled and pitching to the back end of the lineup to start the game.

The other idea they are toying with is what Roberts calls "dual starters", which puts two of the younger kids back to back in the same game after the 'opener', the idea that if they pitch well, they only need to pitch 3-4 innings, which both protects their arms and takes some pressure off them to go long in the game. If both do well, they may not even need any more bullpen help, because their arms will be fresher in the late innings. It also saves bullpen arms to back up the traditional starters like Kershaw who, at his age, is only expected to go 6+.

All interesting, new ideas that could really alter how teams organize the game.

Didn’t realize Mark Prior Dodgers pitching coach. Wish he had stayed healthy with the Cubs. Could have he’d hell of a career.

[Walter]

Sept 23, 2023 13:22:34 GMT -5 oujour76 said:

Sept 23, 2023 11:54:15 GMT -5 Walter said:

The Dodger pitching staff has been a medical disaster this season. They have had to call up and rely on a number of talented, but very young pitchers to fill in for the losses 3 or 4 projected starters when the season began.
They may be using as many as 6 pitchers who were in the minors last season in the post season.
That's gotten them to start experimenting.

Dave Roberts and PC Mark Prior are trying out the notion of an "opener" to pitch the first inning and then bringing in the projected starter in games where the younger pitchers will throw.
The idea is to put a seasoned reliever to deal with what normally are the hottest hitters in any ML lineup, the first 3+ batters. That allows the young 'starter' to focus on the middle of the order. For the kids with little ML experience, it's a chance to get settled and pitching to the back end of the lineup to start the game.

The other idea they are toying with is what Roberts calls "dual starters", which puts two of the younger kids back to back in the same game after the 'opener', the idea that if they pitch well, they only need to pitch 3-4 innings, which both protects their arms and takes some pressure off them to go long in the game. If both do well, they may not even need any more bullpen help, because their arms will be fresher in the late innings. It also saves bullpen arms to back up the traditional starters like Kershaw who, at his age, is only expected to go 6+.

All interesting, new ideas that could really alter how teams organize the game.

Didn’t realize Mark Prior Dodgers pitching coach. Wish he had stayed healthy with the Cubs. Could have he’d hell of a career.

He was all everything coming out of USC. I thought he had HOF level talent.
It is amazing how much guarding the arms of pitchers has changed, even since just Prior's day, let alone the days where guys like Koufax and Gibson were pitching 300+ innings a season. That was just crazy in hindsight.

[oujour76]

Sept 23, 2023 14:15:49 GMT -5 Walter said:

Sept 23, 2023 13:22:34 GMT -5 oujour76 said:

Didn’t realize Mark Prior Dodgers pitching coach. Wish he had stayed healthy with the Cubs. Could have he’d hell of a career.

He was all everything coming out of USC. I thought he had HOF level talent.
It is amazing how much guarding the arms of pitchers has changed, even since just Prior's day, let alone the days where guys like Koufax and Gibson were pitching 300+ innings a season. That was just crazy in hindsight.

A shame….only lasted 6 years in the majors.

[Walter]

Sept 23, 2023 15:01:27 GMT -5 oujour76 said:

Sept 23, 2023 14:15:49 GMT -5 Walter said:

He was all everything coming out of USC. I thought he had HOF level talent.
It is amazing how much guarding the arms of pitchers has changed, even since just Prior's day, let alone the days where guys like Koufax and Gibson were pitching 300+ innings a season. That was just crazy in hindsight.

A shame….only lasted 6 years in the majors.

..and injury shortened seasons for him at that.

[daleko]

Sept 23, 2023 11:54:15 GMT -5 Walter said:

The Dodger pitching staff has been a medical disaster this season. They have had to call up and rely on a number of talented, but very young pitchers to fill in for the losses 3 or 4 projected starters when the season began.
They may be using as many as 6 pitchers who were in the minors last season in the post season.
That's gotten them to start experimenting.

Dave Roberts and PC Mark Prior are trying out the notion of an "opener" to pitch the first inning and then bringing in the projected starter in games where the younger pitchers will throw.
The idea is to put a seasoned reliever to deal with what normally are the hottest hitters in any ML lineup, the first 3+ batters. That allows the young 'starter' to focus on the middle of the order. For the kids with little ML experience, it's a chance to get settled and pitching to the back end of the lineup to start the game.

The other idea they are toying with is what Roberts calls "dual starters", which puts two of the younger kids back to back in the same game after the 'opener', the idea that if they pitch well, they only need to pitch 3-4 innings, which both protects their arms and takes some pressure off them to go long in the game. If both do well, they may not even need any more bullpen help, because their arms will be fresher in the late innings. It also saves bullpen arms to back up the traditional starters like Kershaw who, at his age, is only expected to go 6+.

All interesting, new ideas that could really alter how teams organize the game.

Could be interesting. I always thought, in a playoff game, you could throw in a young opposite hand talent for an inning or two to disrupt a L/R matchup throughout the line up.

[daleko]

Sept 23, 2023 14:15:49 GMT -5 Walter said:

Sept 23, 2023 13:22:34 GMT -5 oujour76 said:

Didn’t realize Mark Prior Dodgers pitching coach. Wish he had stayed healthy with the Cubs. Could have he’d hell of a career.

He was all everything coming out of USC. I thought he had HOF level talent.
It is amazing how much guarding the arms of pitchers has changed, even since just Prior's day, let alone the days where guys like Koufax and Gibson were pitching 300+ innings a season. That was just crazy in hindsight.

I think Spahn once pitched a 16 inning game and lost 1-0, as a 42 yr old.

[Walter]

Sept 24, 2023 11:38:39 GMT -5 daleko said:

Sept 23, 2023 11:54:15 GMT -5 Walter said:

The Dodger pitching staff has been a medical disaster this season. They have had to call up and rely on a number of talented, but very young pitchers to fill in for the losses 3 or 4 projected starters when the season began.
They may be using as many as 6 pitchers who were in the minors last season in the post season.
That's gotten them to start experimenting.

Dave Roberts and PC Mark Prior are trying out the notion of an "opener" to pitch the first inning and then bringing in the projected starter in games where the younger pitchers will throw.
The idea is to put a seasoned reliever to deal with what normally are the hottest hitters in any ML lineup, the first 3+ batters. That allows the young 'starter' to focus on the middle of the order. For the kids with little ML experience, it's a chance to get settled and pitching to the back end of the lineup to start the game.

The other idea they are toying with is what Roberts calls "dual starters", which puts two of the younger kids back to back in the same game after the 'opener', the idea that if they pitch well, they only need to pitch 3-4 innings, which both protects their arms and takes some pressure off them to go long in the game. If both do well, they may not even need any more bullpen help, because their arms will be fresher in the late innings. It also saves bullpen arms to back up the traditional starters like Kershaw who, at his age, is only expected to go 6+.

All interesting, new ideas that could really alter how teams organize the game.

Could be interesting. I always thought, in a playoff game, you could throw in a young opposite hand talent for an inning or two to disrupt a L/R matchup throughout the line up.

The thing I think is fascinating is that even in the regular season, the notion of a pitcher being expected to go deep into a game might no longer be central to how a staff is put together.
If the expectation is fewer innings per start, availability is improved.
Imagine a young Kershaw pitching 4 innings every third or fourth day instead of 7 innings every 5 days.
It changes everything.

[daleko]

Sept 24, 2023 11:51:57 GMT -5 Walter said:

Sept 24, 2023 11:38:39 GMT -5 daleko said:

Could be interesting. I always thought, in a playoff game, you could throw in a young opposite hand talent for an inning or two to disrupt a L/R matchup throughout the line up.

The thing I think is fascinating is that even in the regular season, the notion of a pitcher being expected to go deep into a game might no longer be central to how a staff is put together.
If the expectation is fewer innings per start, availability is improved.
Imagine a young Kershaw pitching 4 innings every third or fourth day instead of 7 innings every 5 days.
It changes everything.

Finding and developing pitching talent still MAY be the most difficult thing in MLB. It might be a numbers game. Maybe not the case today.

Teams like the Brewers who had a number of top shelf relievers is what caused MLB to change the rules.

And in the old days Boston had a Spahn and Sain and pray for rain. Or have a talent like Phil Niekro, who mastered the near zero energy KB.

[oujour76]

Sept 24, 2023 11:51:53 GMT -5 daleko said:

Sept 23, 2023 14:15:49 GMT -5 Walter said:

He was all everything coming out of USC. I thought he had HOF level talent.
It is amazing how much guarding the arms of pitchers has changed, even since just Prior's day, let alone the days where guys like Koufax and Gibson were pitching 300+ innings a season. That was just crazy in hindsight.

I think Spahn once pitched a 16 inning game and lost 1-0, as a 42 yr old.

Against Juan Marichal.

[Walter]

Sept 24, 2023 12:02:00 GMT -5 daleko said:

Sept 24, 2023 11:51:57 GMT -5 Walter said:

The thing I think is fascinating is that even in the regular season, the notion of a pitcher being expected to go deep into a game might no longer be central to how a staff is put together.
If the expectation is fewer innings per start, availability is improved.
Imagine a young Kershaw pitching 4 innings every third or fourth day instead of 7 innings every 5 days.
It changes everything.

Finding and developing pitching talent still MAY be the most difficult thing in MLB. It might be a numbers game. Maybe not the case today.

Teams like the Brewers who had a number of top shelf relievers is what caused MLB to change the rules.

And in the old days Boston had a Spahn and Sain and pray for rain. Or have a talent like Phil Niekro, who mastered the near zero energy KB.

The thing is, the line between 'starter' and 'reliever' is blurring. If so, then teams may draft young pitchers differently.
If I had a staff where 10 pitchers had the ability to pitch 3 solid innings, it changes how I pitch games.
Perhaps think of pitchers like hockey shifts pitching every third day instead of as individuals all on one big staff.
It might be thought of as 3 shifts of three guys, all of whom might start, and 3 or 4 true relievers.