What could go wrong with this?

[Walter]

The story of the Maine shooter:

A Maine law enforcement bulletin identified Card, 40, as a trained firearms instructor at the U.S. Army Reserve base in Saco, Maine, who recently said he had been hearing voices and had other mental health issues.

He threatened to shoot up the National Guard base in Saco and was "reported to have been committed to mental health facility for two weeks during summer 2023 and subsequently released," according to the bulletin from the Maine Information & Analysis Center, a unit of Maine State Police. Reuters could not confirm the details reported in the bulletin.

So let's review.
Guy claims to hear voices, threatens to shoot up a NG base, lands in a mental institution for two weeks, get released and STILL GETS TO KEEP HIS GUNS?!!!
WTF?

[dilligaf]

Oct 26, 2023 12:36:11 GMT -5 Walter said:

The story of the Maine shooter:

A Maine law enforcement bulletin identified Card, 40, as a trained firearms instructor at the U.S. Army Reserve base in Saco, Maine, who recently said he had been hearing voices and had other mental health issues.

He threatened to shoot up the National Guard base in Saco and was "reported to have been committed to mental health facility for two weeks during summer 2023 and subsequently released," according to the bulletin from the Maine Information & Analysis Center, a unit of Maine State Police. Reuters could not confirm the details reported in the bulletin.

So let's review.
Guy claims to hear voices, threatens to shoot up a NG base, lands in a mental institution for two weeks, get released and STILL GETS TO KEEP HIS GUNS?!!!
WTF?

Somebody fell down on the job, obviously.   Maine's red flag laws say only law enforcement or a DA, I think, can petition the court to take someone's guns away.

Not to mention, he could have hidden his guns away from his residence, so a search warrant on his house would find nothing.


Either way, wake up and don't blame the guns.  Millions of American guns are sitting quietly, not harming anyone.

[Walter]

Oct 26, 2023 15:08:48 GMT -5 dilligaf said:

Oct 26, 2023 12:36:11 GMT -5 Walter said:

The story of the Maine shooter:

A Maine law enforcement bulletin identified Card, 40, as a trained firearms instructor at the U.S. Army Reserve base in Saco, Maine, who recently said he had been hearing voices and had other mental health issues.

He threatened to shoot up the National Guard base in Saco and was "reported to have been committed to mental health facility for two weeks during summer 2023 and subsequently released," according to the bulletin from the Maine Information & Analysis Center, a unit of Maine State Police. Reuters could not confirm the details reported in the bulletin.

So let's review.
Guy claims to hear voices, threatens to shoot up a NG base, lands in a mental institution for two weeks, get released and STILL GETS TO KEEP HIS GUNS?!!!
WTF?

Somebody fell down on the job, obviously.   Maine's red flag laws say only law enforcement or a DA, I think, can petition the court to take someone's guns away.

Not to mention, he could have hidden his guns away from his residence, so a search warrant on his house would find nothing.


Either way, wake up and don't blame the guns.  Millions of American guns are sitting quietly, not harming anyone.

...just like Card's guns.
How reassuring...

[AlaCowboy]

Oct 26, 2023 12:36:11 GMT -5 Walter said:

The story of the Maine shooter:

A Maine law enforcement bulletin identified Card, 40, as a trained firearms instructor at the U.S. Army Reserve base in Saco, Maine, who recently said he had been hearing voices and had other mental health issues.

He threatened to shoot up the National Guard base in Saco and was "reported to have been committed to mental health facility for two weeks during summer 2023 and subsequently released," according to the bulletin from the Maine Information & Analysis Center, a unit of Maine State Police. Reuters could not confirm the details reported in the bulletin.

So let's review.
Guy claims to hear voices, threatens to shoot up a NG base, lands in a mental institution for two weeks, get released and STILL GETS TO KEEP HIS GUNS?!!!
WTF?

He was not a trained firearms instructor at the Army Reserve Base. He was a petroleum distribution specialist. He may be a firearms instructor at a private shooting center. Where was he certified?
He maybe drove a petroleum tanker truck or pumped gas at the local Army Reserve depot.
As an aside, My Sweetheart has cousins and an aunt and uncle in Lewiston, Me. She has spoken with them on a private Facebook room several times. They vaguely know the family but not the shooter. The county is virtually locked down. Most everyone there hunts so every household is likely better armed than this shooter. One person said the only vehicles they see on the road are police or sheriff cars, with two or more people in each vehicle.

[DrSchadenfreude]

Oct 26, 2023 12:36:11 GMT -5 Walter said:

The story of the Maine shooter:

A Maine law enforcement bulletin identified Card, 40, as a trained firearms instructor at the U.S. Army Reserve base in Saco, Maine, who recently said he had been hearing voices and had other mental health issues.

He threatened to shoot up the National Guard base in Saco and was "reported to have been committed to mental health facility for two weeks during summer 2023 and subsequently released," according to the bulletin from the Maine Information & Analysis Center, a unit of Maine State Police. Reuters could not confirm the details reported in the bulletin.

So let's review.
Guy claims to hear voices, threatens to shoot up a NG base, lands in a mental institution for two weeks, get released and STILL GETS TO KEEP HIS GUNS?!!!
WTF?

This scenario has been repeated ad infinitum in the U.S.-- everywhere.

From a psychiatric perspective, the problem is partly about legal obstacles to obtaining extended involuntary hospital certifications, and partly about a lack of hospital beds and funding.   

It's also difficult to remove access to guns.   At times, I had to work with family members (or friends) of hospitalized homicidal or suicidal patients to get the guns out of the house.

But some of these guys have no cooperative family or community contacts.

Our country is not organized to adequately protect the public from homicidal, mentally ill people.

At times, I've spent half a day in court during my career to obtain certifications beyond 72 hour mental health holds-- if beds are even available in public sector hospital wards.

In the private sector, managed care plans constantly push to get patients out of private hospital beds.  They don't want to pay for inpatient treatment.

[AlaCowboy]

Oct 27, 2023 12:11:59 GMT -5 DrSchadenfreude said:

Oct 26, 2023 12:36:11 GMT -5 Walter said:

The story of the Maine shooter:

A Maine law enforcement bulletin identified Card, 40, as a trained firearms instructor at the U.S. Army Reserve base in Saco, Maine, who recently said he had been hearing voices and had other mental health issues.

He threatened to shoot up the National Guard base in Saco and was "reported to have been committed to mental health facility for two weeks during summer 2023 and subsequently released," according to the bulletin from the Maine Information & Analysis Center, a unit of Maine State Police. Reuters could not confirm the details reported in the bulletin.

So let's review.
Guy claims to hear voices, threatens to shoot up a NG base, lands in a mental institution for two weeks, get released and STILL GETS TO KEEP HIS GUNS?!!!
WTF?

This scenario has been repeated ad infinitum in the U.S.-- everywhere.

From a psychiatric perspective, the problem is partly about legal obstacles to obtaining extended involuntary hospital certifications, and partly about a lack of hospital beds and funding.   

It's also difficult to remove access to guns.   At times, I had to work with family members (or friends) of hospitalized homicidal or suicidal patients to get the guns out of the house.

But some of these guys have no cooperative family or community contacts.

Our country is not organized to adequately protect the public from homicidal, mentally ill people.

At times, I've spent half a day in court during my career to obtain certifications beyond 72 hour mental health holds-- if beds are even available in public sector hospital wards.

In the private sector, managed care plans constantly push to get patients out of private hospital beds.  They don't want to pay for inpatient treatment.

I am a member of a local volunteer committee working with the state legislature and our counties various city police departments and county sheriffs department trying to come up with a solution to mental health issues. The main problem is getting money from the state to create beds for mental health treatment. Another problem is finding space for those beds. We are eyeing a building that was once an elementary school and trying to raise money to purchase and remodel it for use. It is a huge structure and we are thinking a mental health clinic, a county health clinic annex, and affiliation with the local hospital to put in an urgent care center. The state is mulling over some funding, but we are asking them for annual funding instead of one-time grants. It may be years before this comes to fruition, if ever.

[DrSchadenfreude]

Oct 27, 2023 16:48:26 GMT -5 AlaCowboy said:

Oct 27, 2023 12:11:59 GMT -5 DrSchadenfreude said:

This scenario has been repeated ad infinitum in the U.S.-- everywhere.

From a psychiatric perspective, the problem is partly about legal obstacles to obtaining extended involuntary hospital certifications, and partly about a lack of hospital beds and funding.   

It's also difficult to remove access to guns.   At times, I had to work with family members (or friends) of hospitalized homicidal or suicidal patients to get the guns out of the house.

But some of these guys have no cooperative family or community contacts.

Our country is not organized to adequately protect the public from homicidal, mentally ill people.

At times, I've spent half a day in court during my career to obtain certifications beyond 72 hour mental health holds-- if beds are even available in public sector hospital wards.

In the private sector, managed care plans constantly push to get patients out of private hospital beds.  They don't want to pay for inpatient treatment.

I am a member of a local volunteer committee working with the state legislature and our counties various city police departments and county sheriffs department trying to come up with a solution to mental health issues. The main problem is getting money from the state to create beds for mental health treatment. Another problem is finding space for those beds. We are eyeing a building that was once an elementary school and trying to raise money to purchase and remodel it for use. It is a huge structure and we are thinking a mental health clinic, a county health clinic annex, and affiliation with the local hospital to put in an urgent care center. The state is mulling over some funding, but we are asking them for annual funding instead of one-time grants. It may be years before this comes to fruition, if ever.

During my 40 year psychiatric career, we witnessed the step-wise defunding of public- and private-sector psychiatric hospital beds in Colorado.

The demand for psychiatric beds remained high, but we witnessed a 70% decline in private sector funding of inpatient psychiatric treatment from 1990 to 2000, following the advent of "managed care."

There were similar cuts in state hospital services.

Our high-quality, private hospital ward at University Hospital was closed in 2000, because the University was losing money on it-- despite the persistent high demand for inpatient services.

Three of my colleagues and I ended up leaving the University in 2000, and sharing a private out-patient suite for the next 18 years.

A few years later, the University closed their last remaining adult psychiatric ward-- a unit that focused on the treatment of severely mentally ill adults.

So, when UCHSC grad student James Holmes needed to be hospitalized, the University had no psych beds.  Holmes ended up buying guns and ammo and massacring people at a Batman movie. 

[dilligaf]

Oct 27, 2023 9:55:39 GMT -5 Walter said:

Oct 26, 2023 15:08:48 GMT -5 dilligaf said:

Somebody fell down on the job, obviously.   Maine's red flag laws say only law enforcement or a DA, I think, can petition the court to take someone's guns away.

Not to mention, he could have hidden his guns away from his residence, so a search warrant on his house would find nothing.


Either way, wake up and don't blame the guns.  Millions of American guns are sitting quietly, not harming anyone.

...just like Card's guns.
How reassuring...

Card's guns were owned/controlled by a MENTAL CASE.

What part of that doesn't compute with you?

Most Americans who own guns are NOT mental cases, and they should in no way be punished or persecuted by loony liberals.

Somewhere tonight, people will be killed by falling in the bathroom.
Should we outlaw indoor bathrooms, comrade?

DON'T try the "building codes" bullshit either.

Firearms are also required to be constructed in a safe manner, with materials that have passed rigorous testing.

[dilligaf]

Oct 27, 2023 17:54:41 GMT -5 DrSchadenfreude said:

Oct 27, 2023 16:48:26 GMT -5 AlaCowboy said:

I am a member of a local volunteer committee working with the state legislature and our counties various city police departments and county sheriffs department trying to come up with a solution to mental health issues. The main problem is getting money from the state to create beds for mental health treatment. Another problem is finding space for those beds. We are eyeing a building that was once an elementary school and trying to raise money to purchase and remodel it for use. It is a huge structure and we are thinking a mental health clinic, a county health clinic annex, and affiliation with the local hospital to put in an urgent care center. The state is mulling over some funding, but we are asking them for annual funding instead of one-time grants. It may be years before this comes to fruition, if ever.

During my 40 year psychiatric career, we witnessed the step-wise defunding of public- and private-sector psychiatric hospital beds in Colorado.

The demand for psychiatric beds remained high, but we witnessed a 70% decline in private sector funding of inpatient psychiatric treatment from 1990 to 2000, following the advent of "managed care."

There were similar cuts in state hospital services.

Our high-quality, private hospital ward at University Hospital was closed in 2000, because the University was losing money on it-- despite the persistent high demand for inpatient services.

Three of my colleagues and I ended up leaving the University in 2000, and sharing a private out-patient suite for the next 18 years.

A few years later, the University closed their last remaining adult psychiatric ward-- a unit that focused on the treatment of severely mentally ill adults.

So, when UCHSC grad student James Holmes needed to be hospitalized, the University had no psych beds.  Holmes ended up buying guns and ammo and massacring people at a Batman movie. 

Which proves the guns and ammo were NOT to blame.
Thank you.

[Walter]

Oct 27, 2023 21:46:15 GMT -5 dilligaf said:

Oct 27, 2023 9:55:39 GMT -5 Walter said:

...just like Card's guns.
How reassuring...

Card's guns were owned/controlled by a MENTAL CASE.

What part of that doesn't compute with you?

Most Americans who own guns are NOT mental cases, and they should in no way be punished or persecuted by loony liberals.

Somewhere tonight, people will be killed by falling in the bathroom.
Should we outlaw indoor bathrooms, comrade?

DON'T try the "building codes" bullshit either.

Firearms are also required to be constructed in a safe manner, with materials that have passed rigorous testing.

Get serious. Gun nuts don't even like red flag laws. There is vitually not anyone a gun nut does not believe has a right to own a gun.

Y'all simply do not care about those killed by them.

[DrSchadenfreude]

Oct 28, 2023 9:34:46 GMT -5 Walter said:

Oct 27, 2023 21:46:15 GMT -5 dilligaf said:

Card's guns were owned/controlled by a MENTAL CASE.

What part of that doesn't compute with you?

Most Americans who own guns are NOT mental cases, and they should in no way be punished or persecuted by loony liberals.

Somewhere tonight, people will be killed by falling in the bathroom.
Should we outlaw indoor bathrooms, comrade?

DON'T try the "building codes" bullshit either.

Firearms are also required to be constructed in a safe manner, with materials that have passed rigorous testing.

Get serious. Gun nuts don't even like red flag laws. There is vitually not anyone a gun nut does not believe has a right to own a gun.

Y'all simply do not care about those killed by them.

The MAGA sheriff in El Paso County Colorado refused to enforce a red flag law in the case of the mentally ill kid who recently shot those people at an LGBT bar in Colorado Springs.

The kid had even threatened to murder his grandparents, but still retained custody of his guns!

What is even weirder is that his mother bought body armor for him as a Christmas present-- so that he could pursue his dream of being a mass shooter!

Welcome to the loony GOP MAGA-verse...

[oujour76]

Oct 28, 2023 9:34:46 GMT -5 Walter said:

Oct 27, 2023 21:46:15 GMT -5 dilligaf said:

Card's guns were owned/controlled by a MENTAL CASE.

What part of that doesn't compute with you?

Most Americans who own guns are NOT mental cases, and they should in no way be punished or persecuted by loony liberals.

Somewhere tonight, people will be killed by falling in the bathroom.
Should we outlaw indoor bathrooms, comrade?

DON'T try the "building codes" bullshit either.

Firearms are also required to be constructed in a safe manner, with materials that have passed rigorous testing.

Get serious. Gun nuts don't even like red flag laws. There is vitually not anyone a gun nut does not believe has a right to own a gun.

Y'all simply do not care about those killed by them.

FFS, stop.

[Walter]

Oct 28, 2023 12:50:03 GMT -5 oujour76 said:

Oct 28, 2023 9:34:46 GMT -5 Walter said:

Get serious. Gun nuts don't even like red flag laws. There is vitually not anyone a gun nut does not believe has a right to own a gun.

Y'all simply do not care about those killed by them.

FFS, stop.

I will, as soon as I see any evidence that gun nuts give a F about dead people killed by guns enough to consider the forfeit any gun right whatsoever.
Hell, conservatives in Congress introduced a bill to make the AR-15 the official national firearm.
THAT is F'd up but it is the state of things with them.

[DrSchadenfreude]

Oct 28, 2023 13:49:30 GMT -5 Walter said:

Oct 28, 2023 12:50:03 GMT -5 oujour76 said:

FFS, stop.

I will, as soon as I see any evidence that gun nuts give a F about dead people killed by guns enough to consider the forfeit any gun right whatsoever.
Hell, conservatives in Congress introduced a bill to make the AR-15 the official national firearm.
THAT is F'd up but it is the state of things with them.

Yes, and what does Harry-the-Denialist have to say about Repubs in Congress wearing AR-15 pins on their lapels?

Come on, Harry.  Get real, for once.

[oujour76]

Oct 28, 2023 13:49:30 GMT -5 Walter said:

Oct 28, 2023 12:50:03 GMT -5 oujour76 said:

FFS, stop.

I will, as soon as I see any evidence that gun nuts give a F about dead people killed by guns enough to consider the forfeit any gun right whatsoever.
Hell, conservatives in Congress introduced a bill to make the AR-15 the official national firearm.
THAT is F'd up but it is the state of things with them.

How many gun laws are on the books in this country?