smart people get it...

[AlaCowboy]

Dec 17, 2013 12:43:25 GMT -5 ihs82 said:

Dec 17, 2013 11:51:39 GMT -5 oujour76 said:

Remind me again who invited the NCAA to the party?

i don't know if psu invited them or if they invited themselves. it has never been disclosed publically what happened behind the scenes w/ the psu president, freeh and the ncaa. it's part of why lots of people are anxious to see the paterno lawsuit move forward.

Penn State joined the NCAA freely, so the NCAA is in this at the invitation of Penn State. They can avoid this penalty by leaving and joining the NAIA.

[ihs82]

Feb 10, 2014 17:59:18 GMT -5 AlaCowboy said:

Dec 17, 2013 12:43:25 GMT -5 ihs82 said:

i don't know if psu invited them or if they invited themselves. it has never been disclosed publically what happened behind the scenes w/ the psu president, freeh and the ncaa. it's part of why lots of people are anxious to see the paterno lawsuit move forward.

Penn State joined the NCAA freely, so the NCAA is in this at the invitation of Penn State. They can avoid this penalty by leaving and joining the NAIA.

you know damn well that joining another athletic association is not a viable option.

[AlaCowboy]

Feb 11, 2014 11:02:57 GMT -5 ihs82 said:

Feb 10, 2014 17:59:18 GMT -5 AlaCowboy said:

Penn State joined the NCAA freely, so the NCAA is in this at the invitation of Penn State. They can avoid this penalty by leaving and joining the NAIA.

you know damn well that joining another athletic association is not a viable option.

You conveniently miss the point. PSU freely joined the NCAA and thus accepted all it rules and regulations. The NCAA was therefore invited into this by Penn State.

[ihs82]

Feb 12, 2014 14:36:24 GMT -5 AlaCowboy said:

Feb 11, 2014 11:02:57 GMT -5 ihs82 said:

you know damn well that joining another athletic association is not a viable option.

You conveniently miss the point. PSU freely joined the NCAA and thus accepted all it rules and regulations. The NCAA was therefore invited into this by Penn State.

you miss the point too. the ncaa circumvented all it's rules and regulations when they punished penn state. they didn't follow their own rules for enforcement actions and basically made things up and crammed it down the university's throat.

[mscott59]

Feb 12, 2014 14:56:22 GMT -5 ihs82 said:

Feb 12, 2014 14:36:24 GMT -5 AlaCowboy said:

You conveniently miss the point. PSU freely joined the NCAA and thus accepted all it rules and regulations. The NCAA was therefore invited into this by Penn State.

you miss the point too. the ncaa circumvented all it's rules and regulations when they punished penn state. they didn't follow their own rules for enforcement actions and basically made things up and crammed it down the university's throat.

and you miss the point. the ncaa always prefers schools to self-impose sanctions. who accepted the imposition and procedure here? (rhetorical)

mark scott
tosu 81

[ihs82]

Feb 12, 2014 20:21:26 GMT -5 mscott59 said:

Feb 12, 2014 14:56:22 GMT -5 ihs82 said:

you miss the point too. the ncaa circumvented all it's rules and regulations when they punished penn state. they didn't follow their own rules for enforcement actions and basically made things up and crammed it down the university's throat.

and you miss the point. the ncaa always prefers schools to self-impose sanctions. who accepted the imposition and procedure here? (rhetorical)

mark scott
tosu 81

paterno's estate, the hundreds of ex letterman, former coaches who are unable to gain employment that they are qualified for did not accept the procedure and imposition.

[mscott59]

Feb 14, 2014 8:41:45 GMT -5 ihs82 said:

Feb 12, 2014 20:21:26 GMT -5 mscott59 said:

and you miss the point. the ncaa always prefers schools to self-impose sanctions. who accepted the imposition and procedure here? (rhetorical)

mark scott
tosu 81

paterno's estate, the hundreds of ex letterman, former coaches who are unable to gain employment that they are qualified for did not accept the procedure and imposition.

They weren't running the university then. Supposedly. Why would paterno's estate need to approve the actions of psu execs and the BOT? And Larry Johnson certainly didn't seem to have any issues w finding employment outside state college after the decision.

Mark Scott
Tosu 81

[ihs82]

Feb 14, 2014 10:21:55 GMT -5 mscott59 said:

Feb 14, 2014 8:41:45 GMT -5 ihs82 said:

paterno's estate, the hundreds of ex letterman, former coaches who are unable to gain employment that they are qualified for did not accept the procedure and imposition.

They weren't running the university then. Supposedly. Why would paterno's estate need to approve the actions of psu execs and the BOT? And Larry Johnson certainly didn't seem to have any issues w finding employment outside state college after the decision.

Mark Scott
Tosu 81

the bot did not approve the ncaa's actions. the consent decree was never ratified by penn state leaders. it was signed off by one guy, rodney erickson.

the ncaa secretly negotiated with penn state president rodney erickson. rodney erickson had a small handful of advisors as he was negotiating, but the psu bot was never aware of what was going on. it is very unclear if rodney erickson even had the authority to sign off on the consent decree. on top of this, the ncaa told erickson not to inform the bot or anyone else b/c if details of the deal were released publically, the deal was off the table. the ncaa basically said "we aren't going to kill your program if you handle this yourself. if others find out we are negotiating, we will kill your program." would public disclosure of what went down be that bad of a thing? aren't you at least a little bit curious to see how the ncaa and rodney erickson decided on these penalties in just 2 weeks? especially penalties even though no ncaa rules were actually broken?

tom bradley coaching anywhere? a successful d-coordinator for a major program that was consistently in the top 20 during his tenure? is mike mcqueary coaching anywhere? is jay paterno coaching anywhere? bill kenney went from o-line coach at psu to o-line coach at western michigan? are you just going to ignore testimony given by bill kenney where he said he was told he was told by a potential employer that he was considered toxic b/c he coached at penn state?

it was very admirable of urban meyer to overlook the fact that larry johnson was a defensive coach under jerry Sandusky for a few seasons, which meant that larry johnson obviously knew that Sandusky was a pedophile but didn't tell anyone b/c football is priority #1 at penn state.

[ihs82]

Feb 14, 2014 11:40:41 GMT -5 ihs82 said:

Feb 14, 2014 10:21:55 GMT -5 mscott59 said:

They weren't running the university then. Supposedly. Why would paterno's estate need to approve the actions of psu execs and the BOT? And Larry Johnson certainly didn't seem to have any issues w finding employment outside state college after the decision.

Mark Scott
Tosu 81

the bot did not approve the ncaa's actions. the consent decree was never ratified by penn state leaders. it was signed off by one guy, rodney erickson.

the ncaa secretly negotiated with penn state president rodney erickson. rodney erickson had a small handful of advisors as he was negotiating, but the psu bot was never aware of what was going on. it is very unclear if rodney erickson even had the authority to sign off on the consent decree. on top of this, the ncaa told erickson not to inform the bot or anyone else b/c if details of the deal were released publically, the deal was off the table. the ncaa basically said "we aren't going to kill your program if you handle this yourself. if others find out we are negotiating, we will kill your program." would public disclosure of what went down be that bad of a thing? aren't you at least a little bit curious to see how the ncaa and rodney erickson decided on these penalties in just 2 weeks? especially penalties even though no ncaa rules were actually broken?

tom bradley coaching anywhere? a successful d-coordinator for a major program that was consistently in the top 20 during his tenure? is mike mcqueary coaching anywhere? is jay paterno coaching anywhere? bill kenney went from o-line coach at psu to o-line coach at western michigan? are you just going to ignore testimony given by bill kenney where he said he was told he was told by a potential employer that he was considered toxic b/c he coached at penn state?

it was very admirable of urban meyer to overlook the fact that larry johnson was a defensive coach under jerry Sandusky for a few seasons, which meant that larry johnson obviously knew that Sandusky was a pedophile but didn't tell anyone b/c football is priority #1 at penn state.

btw, i was told by a family friend who claims to have inside knowledge (take it fwiw) that the ncaa and paterno family have had "hypothetically speaking" conversations about settlements and the paterno family was very adamant that it's not about money.

[mscott59]

Feb 14, 2014 11:40:41 GMT -5 ihs82 said:

Feb 14, 2014 10:21:55 GMT -5 mscott59 said:

They weren't running the university then. Supposedly. Why would paterno's estate need to approve the actions of psu execs and the BOT? And Larry Johnson certainly didn't seem to have any issues w finding employment outside state college after the decision.

Mark Scott
Tosu 81

the bot did not approve the ncaa's actions. the consent decree was never ratified by penn state leaders. it was signed off by one guy, rodney erickson.

the ncaa secretly negotiated with penn state president rodney erickson. rodney erickson had a small handful of advisors as he was negotiating, but the psu bot was never aware of what was going on. it is very unclear if rodney erickson even had the authority to sign off on the consent decree. on top of this, the ncaa told erickson not to inform the bot or anyone else b/c if details of the deal were released publically, the deal was off the table. the ncaa basically said "we aren't going to kill your program if you handle this yourself. if others find out we are negotiating, we will kill your program." would public disclosure of what went down be that bad of a thing? aren't you at least a little bit curious to see how the ncaa and rodney erickson decided on these penalties in just 2 weeks? especially penalties even though no ncaa rules were actually broken?

tom bradley coaching anywhere? a successful d-coordinator for a major program that was consistently in the top 20 during his tenure? is mike mcqueary coaching anywhere? is jay paterno coaching anywhere? bill kenney went from o-line coach at psu to o-line coach at western michigan? are you just going to ignore testimony given by bill kenney where he said he was told he was told by a potential employer that he was considered toxic b/c he coached at penn state?

it was very admirable of urban meyer to overlook the fact that larry johnson was a defensive coach under jerry Sandusky for a few seasons, which meant that larry johnson obviously knew that Sandusky was a pedophile but didn't tell anyone b/c football is priority #1 at penn state.

sarcasm duly noted. as for the ex-psu coaches, do you really think it's some kind of blockade or conspiracy? do you know for a fact that jay paterno has applied for other coaching jobs? maybe he has but i haven't heard anything about that. what does it tell you that johnson and kenney have jobs but the others don't?

and you're pissed off at erickson? not the bot, who fired paterno. not the bot, who also fired pres spanier the same day. not curley and schultz, who along w/spanier and maybe paterno knew about the sandusky allegations. you're mad at the guy who wasn't involved in creating all this mess, but who agreed to the punishment to try and put it behind psu and begin looking to the future with new vision methods and procedures.

that says volumes.

mark scott
tosu 81

[ihs82]

Feb 14, 2014 12:47:20 GMT -5 mscott59 said:

Feb 14, 2014 11:40:41 GMT -5 ihs82 said:

the bot did not approve the ncaa's actions. the consent decree was never ratified by penn state leaders. it was signed off by one guy, rodney erickson.

the ncaa secretly negotiated with penn state president rodney erickson. rodney erickson had a small handful of advisors as he was negotiating, but the psu bot was never aware of what was going on. it is very unclear if rodney erickson even had the authority to sign off on the consent decree. on top of this, the ncaa told erickson not to inform the bot or anyone else b/c if details of the deal were released publically, the deal was off the table. the ncaa basically said "we aren't going to kill your program if you handle this yourself. if others find out we are negotiating, we will kill your program." would public disclosure of what went down be that bad of a thing? aren't you at least a little bit curious to see how the ncaa and rodney erickson decided on these penalties in just 2 weeks? especially penalties even though no ncaa rules were actually broken?

tom bradley coaching anywhere? a successful d-coordinator for a major program that was consistently in the top 20 during his tenure? is mike mcqueary coaching anywhere? is jay paterno coaching anywhere? bill kenney went from o-line coach at psu to o-line coach at western michigan? are you just going to ignore testimony given by bill kenney where he said he was told he was told by a potential employer that he was considered toxic b/c he coached at penn state?

it was very admirable of urban meyer to overlook the fact that larry johnson was a defensive coach under jerry Sandusky for a few seasons, which meant that larry johnson obviously knew that Sandusky was a pedophile but didn't tell anyone b/c football is priority #1 at penn state.

sarcasm duly noted. as for the ex-psu coaches, do you really think it's some kind of blockade or conspiracy? do you know for a fact that jay paterno has applied for other coaching jobs? maybe he has but i haven't heard anything about that. what does it tell you that johnson and kenney have jobs but the others don't?

and you're pissed off at erickson? not the bot, who fired paterno. not the bot, who also fired pres spanier the same day. not curley and schultz, who along w/spanier and maybe paterno knew about the sandusky allegations. you're mad at the guy who wasn't involved in creating all this mess, but who agreed to the punishment to try and put it behind psu and begin looking to the future with new vision methods and procedures.

that says volumes.

mark scott
tosu 81

yes jay paterno has applied for other jobs, according to the lawsuit. he said he has filled in applications, but was never granted an interview. the lawsuit also states that he was also denied interviews to do work as a tv analyst. unless you think jay paterno is making this up, these are facts. as outsiders to the program, we hear of maybe .00001% of what goes on behind the scenes with coaches and other employment opportunities so i'm not sure why jay paterno applying to coach somewhere would be public knowledge.

i do think there is a blockade of penn state coaches. those in charge of making hires do not want to deal with the public backlash of hiring someone the public perceives as ignoring red flags about sandusky's behavior. if the ncaa chose not to punish penn state, i believe employment opportunities would have been easier for others. the former coaches should at least have an opportunity to explain why they think this is.

you are using the fact that bill kenney got the same exact job 2 years after being let with a school that has a fraction of the prestige, resources and accomplishments as evidence that penn state coaches weren't unfairly tainted by the ncaa's actions? do you think tom bradley voluntarily quit coaching in the prime of his career?

i think you misunderstood my post. i thought erickson was spineless for allowing the ncaa to forcibly punish the university without fighting back. but i am more pissed at emmert who i do not believe had genuine motives for punishing penn state. emmert was full of shit who just wanted to appease a public that went hysterical based on false conclusions made by louis freeh. and i never said i wasn't mad at the bot. it just wasn't brought up. this thread is related to the paterno lawsuit against the ncaa so i'm not sure why discussing curly/schults/spanier or the bot's decision to fire paterno is relevant to bring up? there are several layers to what happened, and just b/c i don't talk about one of those layers in a post doesn't mean others should infer how i feel about it.

[mscott59]

Feb 14, 2014 13:44:18 GMT -5 ihs82 said:

Feb 14, 2014 12:47:20 GMT -5 mscott59 said:

sarcasm duly noted. as for the ex-psu coaches, do you really think it's some kind of blockade or conspiracy? do you know for a fact that jay paterno has applied for other coaching jobs? maybe he has but i haven't heard anything about that. what does it tell you that johnson and kenney have jobs but the others don't?

and you're pissed off at erickson? not the bot, who fired paterno. not the bot, who also fired pres spanier the same day. not curley and schultz, who along w/spanier and maybe paterno knew about the sandusky allegations. you're mad at the guy who wasn't involved in creating all this mess, but who agreed to the punishment to try and put it behind psu and begin looking to the future with new vision methods and procedures.

that says volumes.

mark scott
tosu 81

yes jay paterno has applied for other jobs, according to the lawsuit. he said he has filled in applications, but was never granted an interview. the lawsuit also states that he was also denied interviews to do work as a tv analyst. unless you think jay paterno is making this up, these are facts. as outsiders to the program, we hear of maybe .00001% of what goes on behind the scenes with coaches and other employment opportunities so i'm not sure why jay paterno applying to coach somewhere would be public knowledge.

i do think there is a blockade of penn state coaches. those in charge of making hires do not want to deal with the public backlash of hiring someone the public perceives as ignoring red flags about sandusky's behavior. if the ncaa chose not to punish penn state, i believe employment opportunities would have been easier for others. the former coaches should at least have an opportunity to explain why they think this is.

you are using the fact that bill kenney got the same exact job 2 years after being let with a school that has a fraction of the prestige, resources and accomplishments as evidence that penn state coaches weren't unfairly tainted by the ncaa's actions? do you think tom bradley voluntarily quit coaching in the prime of his career?

i think you misunderstood my post. i thought erickson was spineless for allowing the ncaa to forcibly punish the university without fighting back. but i am more pissed at emmert who i do not believe had genuine motives for punishing penn state. emmert was full of shit who just wanted to appease a public that went hysterical based on false conclusions made by louis freeh. and i never said i wasn't mad at the bot. it just wasn't brought up. this thread is related to the paterno lawsuit against the ncaa so i'm not sure why discussing curly/schults/spanier or the bot's decision to fire paterno is relevant to bring up? there are several layers to what happened, and just b/c i don't talk about one of those layers in a post doesn't mean others should infer how i feel about it.

so the lawsuit, again, is not simply in the interest of righting supposed wrongs at psu. it's wanting repairs to the paterno family name, financial reparation, etc. did you ever consider the possibility, re ex-psu coaches, that other programs may feel they can find better coaches than those that joepa employed. re kenney getting a job at wmu? after earle bruce got fired at osu, do you know where he coached next? northern iowa. my god there are literally hundreds of examples of coaches at major programs who, for what ever reasons, don't fit at other places. most coaches hired based on relationships, coaches they've worked with in the past. so when an assistant stays at a program for 20+ years, there's sometimes a yang to that yin.

mark scott
tosu 81

[ihs82]

Feb 14, 2014 14:33:17 GMT -5 mscott59 said:

Feb 14, 2014 13:44:18 GMT -5 ihs82 said:

yes jay paterno has applied for other jobs, according to the lawsuit. he said he has filled in applications, but was never granted an interview. the lawsuit also states that he was also denied interviews to do work as a tv analyst. unless you think jay paterno is making this up, these are facts. as outsiders to the program, we hear of maybe .00001% of what goes on behind the scenes with coaches and other employment opportunities so i'm not sure why jay paterno applying to coach somewhere would be public knowledge.

i do think there is a blockade of penn state coaches. those in charge of making hires do not want to deal with the public backlash of hiring someone the public perceives as ignoring red flags about sandusky's behavior. if the ncaa chose not to punish penn state, i believe employment opportunities would have been easier for others. the former coaches should at least have an opportunity to explain why they think this is.

you are using the fact that bill kenney got the same exact job 2 years after being let with a school that has a fraction of the prestige, resources and accomplishments as evidence that penn state coaches weren't unfairly tainted by the ncaa's actions? do you think tom bradley voluntarily quit coaching in the prime of his career?

i think you misunderstood my post. i thought erickson was spineless for allowing the ncaa to forcibly punish the university without fighting back. but i am more pissed at emmert who i do not believe had genuine motives for punishing penn state. emmert was full of shit who just wanted to appease a public that went hysterical based on false conclusions made by louis freeh. and i never said i wasn't mad at the bot. it just wasn't brought up. this thread is related to the paterno lawsuit against the ncaa so i'm not sure why discussing curly/schults/spanier or the bot's decision to fire paterno is relevant to bring up? there are several layers to what happened, and just b/c i don't talk about one of those layers in a post doesn't mean others should infer how i feel about it.

so the lawsuit, again, is not simply in the interest of righting supposed wrongs at psu. it's wanting repairs to the paterno family name, financial reparation, etc. did you ever consider the possibility, re ex-psu coaches, that other programs may feel they can find better coaches than those that joepa employed. re kenney getting a job at wmu? after earle bruce got fired at osu, do you know where he coached next? northern iowa. my god there are literally hundreds of examples of coaches at major programs who, for what ever reasons, don't fit at other places. most coaches hired based on relationships, coaches they've worked with in the past. so when an assistant stays at a program for 20+ years, there's sometimes a yang to that yin.

mark scott
tosu 81

the lawsuit, as I understand it, has many objectives. one of them is to fight back against the ncaa's unfair decision to punish the university. there are other objectives as well that benefit the plaintiffs. but since the university leadership decided not to fight back against the ncaa, i applaud the paterno's for doing so.

i have considered the possibility. and there is a very strong likelihood that jay paterno was even in the position of offensive coordinator/qb coach at penn state b/c of his last name, not on his talents. and i know there are elements of nepotism and cronyism amongst coaches. but, kenny has said he was told he was toxic. if that's true and he can prove it, i think he should be financially rewarded as he shouldn't take a hit in his career b/c of this unproven conclusion that psu leadership purposely and maliciously looked the other regarding sandusky.