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Post by ihs82 on Dec 17, 2013 8:41:06 GMT -5
check out this tidbit below from a recent conversation malcolm gladwell had with bill simmons on grantland.com. the entire convo can be found here: www.grantland.com/story/_/id/10129546/gladwell-vs-simmons-vyes, i know he omits a big detail which is that penn state accepted punishment. but the fact remains the ncaa should never have been involved in the first place. i hope the paternos embarrass the hell out of everyone, including the penn state leaders who surrendered so quickly and easily. GLADWELL: It has to happen! Let me give you another argument for the czar, which is that he could finally put the NCAA in its place. I'm actually still angry about the way the NCAA treated Penn State after the Jerry Sandusky scandal. (And by the way, please call it the Jerry Sandusky scandal, not the Joe Paterno scandal. The person who molested young boys was Jerry Sandusky.) Now, I've written, in The New Yorker, about how we falsely assume that catching child molesters is really straightforward, and that anyone who has a child molester in their midst must be guilty of some kind of cover-up. That's nonsense. The skilled ones, and Jerry Sandusky was very skilled, are consummate con men. So I tend to be a good deal more forgiving of Paterno than most. There's a reason why clinical psychologists receive extensive training, and that's because spotting predatory behavior requires extensive training. (If you doubt this, just spend an afternoon in the library reading the psychological literature on child molesters. It will chill you to the bone. Many go for years without being caught, because child molesters are really good at concealing their crimes.) But let's leave that question aside for a moment and just consider the technical question here. A former employee of Penn State University is suspected of molesting children. He is arrested and charged by the authorities. The university has a set of internal procedures designed to deal with those kinds of criminal activities, and to apportion responsibility for those school officials who acted negligently. The legal system in the state of Pennsylvania also has a set of laws and procedures, in both the civil and criminal arenas, to deal with crimes of this nature. Both acted. That's the way the system is supposed to work. So what does the NCAA do? It jumps in and levies a series of harsh sanctions against the Penn State football program. Can someone tell me where the NCAA found the authority to do that? The NCAA, in its simplest form, is a cartel designed to exploit amateur arbitrage: That is, to profit on the spread between the cost of minimal-wage athletic labor and the value of television sports contracts. Or something like that. Reasonable minds can differ. What they are not is a body with any standing to weigh in on criminal matters concerning university employees that have already been dealt with by the appropriate authorities — merely because the employee in question happens to have once been connected to a sports program. This is crazy! If a bank discovers that one of its tellers is molesting children, the FDIC doesn't suspend the bank's charter and punish every other employee and customer of the bank! Now, I'm not the only one to think this. I've spoken to lots of legal experts who said exactly the same thing. So why does the NCAA get away with this kind of aggressive over-reaching? Because for some reason, when it comes to many of the bigger questions raised by sports, we all shut down our brains. Bring on the czar! By the way, is anyone still reading at this point?" |
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Post by mscott59 on Dec 17, 2013 9:48:21 GMT -5
check out this tidbit below from a recent conversation malcolm gladwell had with bill simmons on grantland.com. the entire convo can be found here: www.grantland.com/story/_/id/10129546/gladwell-vs-simmons-vyes, i know he omits a big detail which is that penn state accepted punishment. but the fact remains the ncaa should never have been involved in the first place. i hope the paternos embarrass the hell out of everyone, including the penn state leaders who surrendered so quickly and easily. GLADWELL: It has to happen! Let me give you another argument for the czar, which is that he could finally put the NCAA in its place. I'm actually still angry about the way the NCAA treated Penn State after the Jerry Sandusky scandal. (And by the way, please call it the Jerry Sandusky scandal, not the Joe Paterno scandal. The person who molested young boys was Jerry Sandusky.) Now, I've written, in The New Yorker, about how we falsely assume that catching child molesters is really straightforward, and that anyone who has a child molester in their midst must be guilty of some kind of cover-up. That's nonsense. The skilled ones, and Jerry Sandusky was very skilled, are consummate con men. So I tend to be a good deal more forgiving of Paterno than most. There's a reason why clinical psychologists receive extensive training, and that's because spotting predatory behavior requires extensive training. (If you doubt this, just spend an afternoon in the library reading the psychological literature on child molesters. It will chill you to the bone. Many go for years without being caught, because child molesters are really good at concealing their crimes.) But let's leave that question aside for a moment and just consider the technical question here. A former employee of Penn State University is suspected of molesting children. He is arrested and charged by the authorities. The university has a set of internal procedures designed to deal with those kinds of criminal activities, and to apportion responsibility for those school officials who acted negligently. The legal system in the state of Pennsylvania also has a set of laws and procedures, in both the civil and criminal arenas, to deal with crimes of this nature. Both acted. That's the way the system is supposed to work. So what does the NCAA do? It jumps in and levies a series of harsh sanctions against the Penn State football program. Can someone tell me where the NCAA found the authority to do that? The NCAA, in its simplest form, is a cartel designed to exploit amateur arbitrage: That is, to profit on the spread between the cost of minimal-wage athletic labor and the value of television sports contracts. Or something like that. Reasonable minds can differ. What they are not is a body with any standing to weigh in on criminal matters concerning university employees that have already been dealt with by the appropriate authorities — merely because the employee in question happens to have once been connected to a sports program. This is crazy! If a bank discovers that one of its tellers is molesting children, the FDIC doesn't suspend the bank's charter and punish every other employee and customer of the bank! Now, I'm not the only one to think this. I've spoken to lots of legal experts who said exactly the same thing. So why does the NCAA get away with this kind of aggressive over-reaching? Because for some reason, when it comes to many of the bigger questions raised by sports, we all shut down our brains. Bring on the czar! By the way, is anyone still reading at this point?" i've not heard of one person, not one, refer to this entire issue as the 'joe paterno scandal'. not one. why do people keep doing this kind of narrative rewrite?? mark scott tosu 81 |
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Post by mscott59 on Dec 17, 2013 9:51:21 GMT -5
check out this tidbit below from a recent conversation malcolm gladwell had with bill simmons on grantland.com. the entire convo can be found here: www.grantland.com/story/_/id/10129546/gladwell-vs-simmons-vyes, i know he omits a big detail which is that penn state accepted punishment. but the fact remains the ncaa should never have been involved in the first place. i hope the paternos embarrass the hell out of everyone, including the penn state leaders who surrendered so quickly and easily. GLADWELL: It has to happen! Let me give you another argument for the czar, which is that he could finally put the NCAA in its place. I'm actually still angry about the way the NCAA treated Penn State after the Jerry Sandusky scandal. (And by the way, please call it the Jerry Sandusky scandal, not the Joe Paterno scandal. The person who molested young boys was Jerry Sandusky.) Now, I've written, in The New Yorker, about how we falsely assume that catching child molesters is really straightforward, and that anyone who has a child molester in their midst must be guilty of some kind of cover-up. That's nonsense. The skilled ones, and Jerry Sandusky was very skilled, are consummate con men. So I tend to be a good deal more forgiving of Paterno than most. There's a reason why clinical psychologists receive extensive training, and that's because spotting predatory behavior requires extensive training. (If you doubt this, just spend an afternoon in the library reading the psychological literature on child molesters. It will chill you to the bone. Many go for years without being caught, because child molesters are really good at concealing their crimes.) But let's leave that question aside for a moment and just consider the technical question here. A former employee of Penn State University is suspected of molesting children. He is arrested and charged by the authorities. The university has a set of internal procedures designed to deal with those kinds of criminal activities, and to apportion responsibility for those school officials who acted negligently. The legal system in the state of Pennsylvania also has a set of laws and procedures, in both the civil and criminal arenas, to deal with crimes of this nature. Both acted. That's the way the system is supposed to work. So what does the NCAA do? It jumps in and levies a series of harsh sanctions against the Penn State football program. Can someone tell me where the NCAA found the authority to do that? The NCAA, in its simplest form, is a cartel designed to exploit amateur arbitrage: That is, to profit on the spread between the cost of minimal-wage athletic labor and the value of television sports contracts. Or something like that. Reasonable minds can differ. What they are not is a body with any standing to weigh in on criminal matters concerning university employees that have already been dealt with by the appropriate authorities — merely because the employee in question happens to have once been connected to a sports program. This is crazy! If a bank discovers that one of its tellers is molesting children, the FDIC doesn't suspend the bank's charter and punish every other employee and customer of the bank! Now, I'm not the only one to think this. I've spoken to lots of legal experts who said exactly the same thing. So why does the NCAA get away with this kind of aggressive over-reaching? Because for some reason, when it comes to many of the bigger questions raised by sports, we all shut down our brains. Bring on the czar! By the way, is anyone still reading at this point?" i've not heard of one person, not one, refer to this entire issue as the 'joe paterno scandal'. not one. why do people keep doing this kind of narrative rewrite?? mark scott tosu 81 btw, using the bank analogy, what if the bank knew, or suspected, that the teller was molesting children and either did nothing, or simply moved the teller's position over to a secluded area, but still within the store and actually closer to the designated play area? the ncaa jurisdiction issue is not just because sandusky was molesting children... you know that. |
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Post by oujour76 on Dec 17, 2013 10:23:42 GMT -5
i've not heard of one person, not one, refer to this entire issue as the 'joe paterno scandal'. not one. why do people keep doing this kind of narrative rewrite?? mark scott tosu 81 [/quote] Once used, the victim card tends to get replayed over and over again. Penn State isn't a victim. The victims are the victims. The people in control at Penn State looked the other way re: Jerry Sandusky and they did so for years and years. And no matter what was in front of them about Sandusky, everything they did was to protect Penn State first and Jerry Sandusky second. They cared so much for the victims they never even bothered to find out their names. I have sympathy for the players who had nothing to do with all of this, but I have ZERO sympathy for Penn State as an institution. Cry me a f-ing river. Penn State invited the NCAA into the party...that little fact always seems to be overlooked.
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Post by ihs82 on Dec 17, 2013 10:57:25 GMT -5
i've not heard of one person, not one, refer to this entire issue as the 'joe paterno scandal'. not one. why do people keep doing this kind of narrative rewrite?? mark scott tosu 81 btw, using the bank analogy, what if the bank knew, or suspected, that the teller was molesting children and either did nothing, or simply moved the teller's position over to a secluded area, but still within the store and actually closer to the designated play area? the ncaa jurisdiction issue is not just because sandusky was molesting children... you know that. using the bank analogy...the teller happened to be a pillar of the community who realized he wasn't going to be promoted to the job he wanted so he parlayed his status in the local community into a comfy retirement deal and dedicated the rest of his life into a passion of his that was completely separate from banking. the ncaa had zero jurisdiction but they knew they could gain favorable public perception b/c people were so angry. the people were angry and wanted to blame someone, but it's human nature to only assess blame if we understand. a cover up is easier for the average person to understand...the complex, dark nature of a sadistic pedophile that expert psychologists receive extensive training about is not is far more difficult to understand. |
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Post by ihs82 on Dec 17, 2013 11:12:24 GMT -5
i've not heard of one person, not one, refer to this entire issue as the 'joe paterno scandal'. not one. why do people keep doing this kind of narrative rewrite?? mark scott tosu 81
[/quote] victim is a relative term. sandusky's victims have a lifetime of emotional trauma to deal with as a consequence of sandusky's behaviors. that fact is not getting overlooked. but, penn state is also a victim of the harsh punishment against the university for something that only very very few people were involved with. a punishment that was unnecessary as it was already being dealt with by the proper authorities with actual jurisdiction in the matter. spanier/schultz/curley will have their day in court to prove their innocence. paterno was never afforded the same luxury. you are going to believe what you want to believe, but to this day, there has been absolutely zero proof that paterno knew or suspected sandusky was the monster he turned out to be. and it is impossible to prove that any decisions made by paterno were to protect himself or the university/football program. but it has been proven time and time again that there is a disturbing pattern of people in communities everywhere who do a really shitty job identifying pedophiles, especially pedophile's who are pillars of the community. therefore, it is unfair to assign a sinister motive in penn state's case unless you assign a sinister motive in every case where a pedophile is able to roam free. penn state did invite the NCAA into the party. it's a fact that's not overlooked. many of us are still demanding to know what the hell happened. many of us want to know if penn state leaders decided on a strategy of surrendering, settling and moving on asap or if the ncaa crammed this down their throats. despite a promise of transparency, we still have no idea. how the hell did cnn get leaked e-mails from the freeh report weeks in advance? why was the ncaa getting periodic updates from freeh over the course of his investigation when penn state said no one was going to know what was in the report until it was finished? |
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Post by mscott59 on Dec 17, 2013 11:43:12 GMT -5
i've not heard of one person, not one, refer to this entire issue as the 'joe paterno scandal'. not one. why do people keep doing this kind of narrative rewrite?? mark scott tosu 81
victim is a relative term. sandusky's victims have a lifetime of emotional trauma to deal with as a consequence of sandusky's behaviors. that fact is not getting overlooked. but, penn state is also a victim of the harsh punishment against the university for something that only very very few people were involved with. a punishment that was unnecessary as it was already being dealt with by the proper authorities with actual jurisdiction in the matter. spanier/schultz/curley will have their day in court to prove their innocence. paterno was never afforded the same luxury. you are going to believe what you want to believe, but to this day, there has been absolutely zero proof that paterno knew or suspected sandusky was the monster he turned out to be. and it is impossible to prove that any decisions made by paterno were to protect himself or the university/football program. but it has been proven time and time again that there is a disturbing pattern of people in communities everywhere who do a really shitty job identifying pedophiles, especially pedophile's who are pillars of the community. therefore, it is unfair to assign a sinister motive in penn state's case unless you assign a sinister motive in every case where a pedophile is able to roam free. penn state did invite the NCAA into the party. it's a fact that's not overlooked. many of us are still demanding to know what the hell happened. many of us want to know if penn state leaders decided on a strategy of surrendering, settling and moving on asap or if the ncaa crammed this down their throats. despite a promise of transparency, we still have no idea. how the hell did cnn get leaked e-mails from the freeh report weeks in advance? why was the ncaa getting periodic updates from freeh over the course of his investigation when penn state said no one was going to know what was in the report until it was finished? [/quote] you are also going to believe what you are going to believe. i repeat... i've heard no one who was in favor of the ncaa sanctions, or maybe even in part was in favor of it, call this the joe paterno scandal. but yet hordes of psu fans keep inserting paterno as being the guy wronged here. it's ridiculous, and it's sad. spanier/schultz/curley will have their day in court because THEY ARE FACING CHARGES. paterno, if he were alive today, would not have a day in court because prosecutors have said he would not have been charged in this. and yet, you continue to say the same thing over and over and over. that paterno was wronged. you whisper, in essence, about the people who suffered physical/emotional damage that could last a lifetime, but shout from the mountain tops about a man who, even though he was not charged nor found guilty of a crime, said in his last days on earth that he wished he'd done more, like he's in jail. your perspective is so skewed when it comes to this. mark scott tosu 81 |
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Post by oujour76 on Dec 17, 2013 11:51:39 GMT -5
btw, using the bank analogy, what if the bank knew, or suspected, that the teller was molesting children and either did nothing, or simply moved the teller's position over to a secluded area, but still within the store and actually closer to the designated play area? the ncaa jurisdiction issue is not just because sandusky was molesting children... you know that. using the bank analogy...the teller happened to be a pillar of the community who realized he wasn't going to be promoted to the job he wanted so he parlayed his status in the local community into a comfy retirement deal and dedicated the rest of his life into a passion of his that was completely separate from banking. the ncaa had zero jurisdiction but they knew they could gain favorable public perception b/c people were so angry. the people were angry and wanted to blame someone, but it's human nature to only assess blame if we understand. a cover up is easier for the average person to understand...the complex, dark nature of a sadistic pedophile that expert psychologists receive extensive training about is not is far more difficult to understand.
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Post by oujour76 on Dec 17, 2013 12:10:13 GMT -5
i've not heard of one person, not one, refer to this entire issue as the 'joe paterno scandal'. not one. why do people keep doing this kind of narrative rewrite?? mark scott tosu 81
victim is a relative term. sandusky's victims have a lifetime of emotional trauma to deal with as a consequence of sandusky's behaviors. that fact is not getting overlooked. but, penn state is also a victim of the harsh punishment against the university for something that only very very few people were involved with. a punishment that was unnecessary as it was already being dealt with by the proper authorities with actual jurisdiction in the matter. spanier/schultz/curley will have their day in court to prove their innocence. paterno was never afforded the same luxury. you are going to believe what you want to believe, but to this day, there has been absolutely zero proof that paterno knew or suspected sandusky was the monster he turned out to be. and it is impossible to prove that any decisions made by paterno were to protect himself or the university/football program. but it has been proven time and time again that there is a disturbing pattern of people in communities everywhere who do a really shitty job identifying pedophiles, especially pedophile's who are pillars of the community. therefore, it is unfair to assign a sinister motive in penn state's case unless you assign a sinister motive in every case where a pedophile is able to roam free. penn state did invite the NCAA into the party. it's a fact that's not overlooked. many of us are still demanding to know what the hell happened. many of us want to know if penn state leaders decided on a strategy of surrendering, settling and moving on asap or if the ncaa crammed this down their throats. despite a promise of transparency, we still have no idea. how the hell did cnn get leaked e-mails from the freeh report weeks in advance? why was the ncaa getting periodic updates from freeh over the course of his investigation when penn state said no one was going to know what was in the report until it was finished? [/quote] Bullshit. It's not unfair to assign a sinister motive to Penn State unless one does the same in every other case out there. The world doesn't revolve around Penn State. As for Paterno? The Penn State BOT threw him under the bus, not the NCAA. For God's sake, after 50 years of service they fired him over the telephone.
But, you want to have it both ways....first you want to criticize the BOT and demand answers while at the same time you want to excuse their actions as being coerced by the NCAA, Louis Freeh, the media and whomever else is a convenient target.
Penn State is a big organization; it is a major corporation and it acts like major corporations do when faced with unpleasant choices. They made a business decision to do what they felt was the best choice re: the NCAA, Joe Paterno, Louis Freeh, etc. And now they are trying to put some of that toothpaste back in the tube. Which is also what major corporations do...they start a PR campaign.
Sympathy for the players? Absolutely. Sympathy for Penn State as an institution? No way. |
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Post by ihs82 on Dec 17, 2013 12:38:55 GMT -5
Once used, the victim card tends to get replayed over and over again. Penn State isn't a victim. The victims are the victims. The people in control at Penn State looked the other way re: Jerry Sandusky and they did so for years and years. And no matter what was in front of them about Sandusky, everything they did was to protect Penn State first and Jerry Sandusky second. They cared so much for the victims they never even bothered to find out their names. I have sympathy for the players who had nothing to do with all of this, but I have ZERO sympathy for Penn State as an institution. Cry me a f-ing river. Penn State invited the NCAA into the party...that little fact always seems to be overlooked.
victim is a relative term. sandusky's victims have a lifetime of emotional trauma to deal with as a consequence of sandusky's behaviors. that fact is not getting overlooked. but, penn state is also a victim of the harsh punishment against the university for something that only very very few people were involved with. a punishment that was unnecessary as it was already being dealt with by the proper authorities with actual jurisdiction in the matter. spanier/schultz/curley will have their day in court to prove their innocence. paterno was never afforded the same luxury. you are going to believe what you want to believe, but to this day, there has been absolutely zero proof that paterno knew or suspected sandusky was the monster he turned out to be. and it is impossible to prove that any decisions made by paterno were to protect himself or the university/football program. but it has been proven time and time again that there is a disturbing pattern of people in communities everywhere who do a really shitty job identifying pedophiles, especially pedophile's who are pillars of the community. therefore, it is unfair to assign a sinister motive in penn state's case unless you assign a sinister motive in every case where a pedophile is able to roam free. penn state did invite the NCAA into the party. it's a fact that's not overlooked. many of us are still demanding to know what the hell happened. many of us want to know if penn state leaders decided on a strategy of surrendering, settling and moving on asap or if the ncaa crammed this down their throats. despite a promise of transparency, we still have no idea. how the hell did cnn get leaked e-mails from the freeh report weeks in advance? why was the ncaa getting periodic updates from freeh over the course of his investigation when penn state said no one was going to know what was in the report until it was finished? you are also going to believe what you are going to believe. i repeat... i've heard no one who was in favor of the ncaa sanctions, or maybe even in part was in favor of it, call this the joe paterno scandal. but yet hordes of psu fans keep inserting paterno as being the guy wronged here. it's ridiculous, and it's sad. spanier/schultz/curley will have their day in court because THEY ARE FACING CHARGES. paterno, if he were alive today, would not have a day in court because prosecutors have said he would not have been charged in this. and yet, you continue to say the same thing over and over and over. that paterno was wronged. you whisper, in essence, about the people who suffered physical/emotional damage that could last a lifetime, but shout from the mountain tops about a man who, even though he was not charged nor found guilty of a crime, said in his last days on earth that he wished he'd done more, like he's in jail. your perspective is so skewed when it comes to this. mark scott tosu 81 [/quote] before you continue to insinuate that I somehow care more about the legacy of a football coach over the sexual abuse of children, let me just remind you that we are on a fun football message board talking ncaa related topics. it is possible to separate the issues. and considering that no one here knows me in real life, it's not very fair to make assumptions on my perspective. gladwell is saying the same thing as me. gladwell is a smart guy. outliers, blink, tipping point are all books read by everyone I know. yet you don't accuse gladwell of caring more about paterno's legacy than the sexual abuse of children. gladwell is not a penn state fan either. neither is bob costas, joe posnanski, mike krzyzewski, phil knight, bill james...all these guys are at the top of their professions. so before pigeonhole me with "hordes of penn state fans", please consider that i am not alone in this opinion. |
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Post by ihs82 on Dec 17, 2013 12:43:25 GMT -5
using the bank analogy...the teller happened to be a pillar of the community who realized he wasn't going to be promoted to the job he wanted so he parlayed his status in the local community into a comfy retirement deal and dedicated the rest of his life into a passion of his that was completely separate from banking. the ncaa had zero jurisdiction but they knew they could gain favorable public perception b/c people were so angry. the people were angry and wanted to blame someone, but it's human nature to only assess blame if we understand. a cover up is easier for the average person to understand...the complex, dark nature of a sadistic pedophile that expert psychologists receive extensive training about is not is far more difficult to understand.
i don't know if psu invited them or if they invited themselves. it has never been disclosed publically what happened behind the scenes w/ the psu president, freeh and the ncaa. it's part of why lots of people are anxious to see the paterno lawsuit move forward. |
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Post by mscott59 on Dec 17, 2013 13:32:00 GMT -5
victim is a relative term. sandusky's victims have a lifetime of emotional trauma to deal with as a consequence of sandusky's behaviors. that fact is not getting overlooked. but, penn state is also a victim of the harsh punishment against the university for something that only very very few people were involved with. a punishment that was unnecessary as it was already being dealt with by the proper authorities with actual jurisdiction in the matter. spanier/schultz/curley will have their day in court to prove their innocence. paterno was never afforded the same luxury. you are going to believe what you want to believe, but to this day, there has been absolutely zero proof that paterno knew or suspected sandusky was the monster he turned out to be. and it is impossible to prove that any decisions made by paterno were to protect himself or the university/football program. but it has been proven time and time again that there is a disturbing pattern of people in communities everywhere who do a really shitty job identifying pedophiles, especially pedophile's who are pillars of the community. therefore, it is unfair to assign a sinister motive in penn state's case unless you assign a sinister motive in every case where a pedophile is able to roam free. penn state did invite the NCAA into the party. it's a fact that's not overlooked. many of us are still demanding to know what the hell happened. many of us want to know if penn state leaders decided on a strategy of surrendering, settling and moving on asap or if the ncaa crammed this down their throats. despite a promise of transparency, we still have no idea. how the hell did cnn get leaked e-mails from the freeh report weeks in advance? why was the ncaa getting periodic updates from freeh over the course of his investigation when penn state said no one was going to know what was in the report until it was finished? you are also going to believe what you are going to believe. i repeat... i've heard no one who was in favor of the ncaa sanctions, or maybe even in part was in favor of it, call this the joe paterno scandal. but yet hordes of psu fans keep inserting paterno as being the guy wronged here. it's ridiculous, and it's sad. spanier/schultz/curley will have their day in court because THEY ARE FACING CHARGES. paterno, if he were alive today, would not have a day in court because prosecutors have said he would not have been charged in this. and yet, you continue to say the same thing over and over and over. that paterno was wronged. you whisper, in essence, about the people who suffered physical/emotional damage that could last a lifetime, but shout from the mountain tops about a man who, even though he was not charged nor found guilty of a crime, said in his last days on earth that he wished he'd done more, like he's in jail. your perspective is so skewed when it comes to this. mark scott tosu 81 before you continue to insinuate that I somehow care more about the legacy of a football coach over the sexual abuse of children, let me just remind you that we are on a fun football message board talking ncaa related topics. it is possible to separate the issues. and considering that no one here knows me in real life, it's not very fair to make assumptions on my perspective. gladwell is saying the same thing as me. gladwell is a smart guy. outliers, blink, tipping point are all books read by everyone I know. yet you don't accuse gladwell of caring more about paterno's legacy than the sexual abuse of children. gladwell is not a penn state fan either. neither is bob costas, joe posnanski, mike krzyzewski, phil knight, bill james...all these guys are at the top of their professions. so before pigeonhole me with "hordes of penn state fans", please consider that i am not alone in this opinion. [/quote] so, we're on a 'fun' message board. fun. i agree. i like talking sports. the sandusky saga is anything but... but you certainly choose to post an update anytime someone who has some kind of public profile says anything defending paterno. the only thing i know about your perspective, the only thing you share about your perspective, is what you type. i like you. you seem like a pretty intelligent guy. but you keep inserting paterno's name like he's been named enemy #1 by the authorities, the ncaa, the media, the public. and i honestly don't know why. because he's not now, nor was he ever, at the top of anyone's list in all this. he's obviously an element... and if the emails are accurate it appears he at least had tacit knowledge of some things. but i repeat... authorities said there was not enough to file any potential charges against him, like they did the other administrators. and yet you and others keep crying foul. as for your opinion being linked w/gladwell, costas et al? opinion about which tangent of all this? that the ncaa overstepped its bounds? that paterno didn't know anything? that the investigation that psu commissioned was faulty? the penalties too harsh? there are a lot of them. which one? and of everyone you mentioned, no one knew what was going on in the 90s/00s... no one was within the football program, psu athletic dept or exec branch. yet they all know what paterno knew/didn't know? wow. i don't have an agenda to protect paterno at all costs. i would just like to know the complete truth about whether psu leaders in authority, had knowledge of, and/or tried to conceal the actions of sandusky. no one's argued that the ncaa actions weren't historic, or questionable. but you act like it was all an indictment of paterno. and again, i repeat, why? mark scott tosu 81 |
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Post by ihs82 on Dec 17, 2013 16:59:47 GMT -5
Once used, the victim card tends to get replayed over and over again. Penn State isn't a victim. The victims are the victims. The people in control at Penn State looked the other way re: Jerry Sandusky and they did so for years and years. And no matter what was in front of them about Sandusky, everything they did was to protect Penn State first and Jerry Sandusky second. They cared so much for the victims they never even bothered to find out their names. I have sympathy for the players who had nothing to do with all of this, but I have ZERO sympathy for Penn State as an institution. Cry me a f-ing river. Penn State invited the NCAA into the party...that little fact always seems to be overlooked.
victim is a relative term. sandusky's victims have a lifetime of emotional trauma to deal with as a consequence of sandusky's behaviors. that fact is not getting overlooked. but, penn state is also a victim of the harsh punishment against the university for something that only very very few people were involved with. a punishment that was unnecessary as it was already being dealt with by the proper authorities with actual jurisdiction in the matter. spanier/schultz/curley will have their day in court to prove their innocence. paterno was never afforded the same luxury. you are going to believe what you want to believe, but to this day, there has been absolutely zero proof that paterno knew or suspected sandusky was the monster he turned out to be. and it is impossible to prove that any decisions made by paterno were to protect himself or the university/football program. but it has been proven time and time again that there is a disturbing pattern of people in communities everywhere who do a really shitty job identifying pedophiles, especially pedophile's who are pillars of the community. therefore, it is unfair to assign a sinister motive in penn state's case unless you assign a sinister motive in every case where a pedophile is able to roam free. penn state did invite the NCAA into the party. it's a fact that's not overlooked. many of us are still demanding to know what the hell happened. many of us want to know if penn state leaders decided on a strategy of surrendering, settling and moving on asap or if the ncaa crammed this down their throats. despite a promise of transparency, we still have no idea. how the hell did cnn get leaked e-mails from the freeh report weeks in advance? why was the ncaa getting periodic updates from freeh over the course of his investigation when penn state said no one was going to know what was in the report until it was finished?
But, you want to have it both ways....first you want to criticize the BOT and demand answers while at the same time you want to excuse their actions as being coerced by the NCAA, Louis Freeh, the media and whomever else is a convenient target.
Penn State is a big organization; it is a major corporation and it acts like major corporations do when faced with unpleasant choices. They made a business decision to do what they felt was the best choice re: the NCAA, Joe Paterno, Louis Freeh, etc. And now they are trying to put some of that toothpaste back in the tube. Which is also what major corporations do...they start a PR campaign.
Sympathy for the players? Absolutely. Sympathy for Penn State as an institution? No way. [/quote] never said the world revolves around psu. just saying it's unfair to blame penn state's desire to protect it's image by enabling Sandusky but at the same time overlook why pedo's are enabled in various communities across the country. it's unfair that psu has been judged in hindsight w/o anyone considering that connecting all these dots are far more difficult to do in real time. and yes, it's unfair that a guy goes 50 plus years w/o an ethical blemish but people condemn him at the flimsiest of circumstantial evidence. I honestly don't know if they were coerced by the ncaa. at first I thought they were. but I am beginning to their plan all along was to just surrender and move on asap and that the ncaa happily worked w/ them. but it'd be nice to know how it only took 12 days for the ncaa to determine they not only had the authority to punish penn state, but only 12 days to decide on the punishment. |
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Post by mscott59 on Dec 17, 2013 17:03:13 GMT -5
victim is a relative term. sandusky's victims have a lifetime of emotional trauma to deal with as a consequence of sandusky's behaviors. that fact is not getting overlooked. but, penn state is also a victim of the harsh punishment against the university for something that only very very few people were involved with. a punishment that was unnecessary as it was already being dealt with by the proper authorities with actual jurisdiction in the matter. spanier/schultz/curley will have their day in court to prove their innocence. paterno was never afforded the same luxury. you are going to believe what you want to believe, but to this day, there has been absolutely zero proof that paterno knew or suspected sandusky was the monster he turned out to be. and it is impossible to prove that any decisions made by paterno were to protect himself or the university/football program. but it has been proven time and time again that there is a disturbing pattern of people in communities everywhere who do a really shitty job identifying pedophiles, especially pedophile's who are pillars of the community. therefore, it is unfair to assign a sinister motive in penn state's case unless you assign a sinister motive in every case where a pedophile is able to roam free. penn state did invite the NCAA into the party. it's a fact that's not overlooked. many of us are still demanding to know what the hell happened. many of us want to know if penn state leaders decided on a strategy of surrendering, settling and moving on asap or if the ncaa crammed this down their throats. despite a promise of transparency, we still have no idea. how the hell did cnn get leaked e-mails from the freeh report weeks in advance? why was the ncaa getting periodic updates from freeh over the course of his investigation when penn state said no one was going to know what was in the report until it was finished?
But, you want to have it both ways....first you want to criticize the BOT and demand answers while at the same time you want to excuse their actions as being coerced by the NCAA, Louis Freeh, the media and whomever else is a convenient target.
Penn State is a big organization; it is a major corporation and it acts like major corporations do when faced with unpleasant choices. They made a business decision to do what they felt was the best choice re: the NCAA, Joe Paterno, Louis Freeh, etc. And now they are trying to put some of that toothpaste back in the tube. Which is also what major corporations do...they start a PR campaign.
Sympathy for the players? Absolutely. Sympathy for Penn State as an institution? No way. never said the world revolves around psu. just saying it's unfair to blame penn state's desire to protect it's image by enabling Sandusky but at the same time overlook why pedo's are enabled in various communities across the country. it's unfair that psu has been judged in hindsight w/o anyone considering that connecting all these dots are far more difficult to do in real time. and yes, it's unfair that a guy goes 50 plus years w/o an ethical blemish but people condemn him at the flimsiest of circumstantial evidence. I honestly don't know if they were coerced by the ncaa. at first I thought they were. but I am beginning to their plan all along was to just surrender and move on asap and that the ncaa happily worked w/ them. but it'd be nice to know how it only took 12 days for the ncaa to determine they not only had the authority to punish penn state, but only 12 days to decide on the punishment. [/quote] oh my god. who is 'condemning' paterno?? no one is saying that but you and others who keep trying to 'repair' his image by falsely claiming that the public is saying something it isn't. stop. please. mark scott tosu 81 |
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Post by oujour76 on Dec 17, 2013 17:13:27 GMT -5
victim is a relative term. sandusky's victims have a lifetime of emotional trauma to deal with as a consequence of sandusky's behaviors. that fact is not getting overlooked. but, penn state is also a victim of the harsh punishment against the university for something that only very very few people were involved with. a punishment that was unnecessary as it was already being dealt with by the proper authorities with actual jurisdiction in the matter. spanier/schultz/curley will have their day in court to prove their innocence. paterno was never afforded the same luxury. you are going to believe what you want to believe, but to this day, there has been absolutely zero proof that paterno knew or suspected sandusky was the monster he turned out to be. and it is impossible to prove that any decisions made by paterno were to protect himself or the university/football program. but it has been proven time and time again that there is a disturbing pattern of people in communities everywhere who do a really shitty job identifying pedophiles, especially pedophile's who are pillars of the community. therefore, it is unfair to assign a sinister motive in penn state's case unless you assign a sinister motive in every case where a pedophile is able to roam free. penn state did invite the NCAA into the party. it's a fact that's not overlooked. many of us are still demanding to know what the hell happened. many of us want to know if penn state leaders decided on a strategy of surrendering, settling and moving on asap or if the ncaa crammed this down their throats. despite a promise of transparency, we still have no idea. how the hell did cnn get leaked e-mails from the freeh report weeks in advance? why was the ncaa getting periodic updates from freeh over the course of his investigation when penn state said no one was going to know what was in the report until it was finished?
But, you want to have it both ways....first you want to criticize the BOT and demand answers while at the same time you want to excuse their actions as being coerced by the NCAA, Louis Freeh, the media and whomever else is a convenient target.
Penn State is a big organization; it is a major corporation and it acts like major corporations do when faced with unpleasant choices. They made a business decision to do what they felt was the best choice re: the NCAA, Joe Paterno, Louis Freeh, etc. And now they are trying to put some of that toothpaste back in the tube. Which is also what major corporations do...they start a PR campaign.
Sympathy for the players? Absolutely. Sympathy for Penn State as an institution? No way. never said the world revolves around psu. just saying it's unfair to blame penn state's desire to protect it's image by enabling Sandusky but at the same time overlook why pedo's are enabled in various communities across the country. it's unfair that psu has been judged in hindsight w/o anyone considering that connecting all these dots are far more difficult to do in real time. and yes, it's unfair that a guy goes 50 plus years w/o an ethical blemish but people condemn him at the flimsiest of circumstantial evidence. I honestly don't know if they were coerced by the ncaa. at first I thought they were. but I am beginning to their plan all along was to just surrender and move on asap and that the ncaa happily worked w/ them. but it'd be nice to know how it only took 12 days for the ncaa to determine they not only had the authority to punish penn state, but only 12 days to decide on the punishment. [/quote]
I don't blame Penn State for wanting to repair its image. I fully expected them to do so. I blame them and a lot of their fans for the "boo-hoo, woe is me, we're victims too" fertilizer that is being spread around. As I said before....I have sympathy for the players, but not the institution. |
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