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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2017 16:44:26 GMT -5
So exactly how much ammo does the CBC say you CAN store in your house, Walt, or lake, as it were? According to the Fire Code, small arms ammunition is a Division 1.4 explosive. Table 307.1(1) says you can store up to 50 cubic feet, or what they call "solid pounds" of the stuff before you cross over into an H occupancy requirement. How the hell they measure ammunition with those wierd-ass units of measure beats the hell out of me, so I have no idea how many rounds or size of round that is, but I'm sure a Fire Inspector would know, and I'd guess that photo shows more than the limit.
No, I would not want this in a crowded area, but if it is in an outbuilding out somewhere on my Montana ranch, it is not a public safety issue. |
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Post by Walter on Feb 10, 2017 16:52:37 GMT -5
According to the Fire Code, small arms ammunition is a Division 1.4 explosive. Table 307.1(1) says you can store up to 50 cubic feet, or what they call "solid pounds" of the stuff before you cross over into an H occupancy requirement. How the hell they measure ammunition with those wierd-ass units of measure beats the hell out of me, so I have no idea how many rounds or size of round that is, but I'm sure a Fire Inspector would know, and I'd guess that photo shows more than the limit.
No, I would not want this in a crowded area, but if it is in an outbuilding out somewhere on my Montana ranch, it is not a public safety issue.The California codes are virtually identical to national model codes. Back in the day, I actually had an Architectural license in Louisiana, and back then, most LA jurisdictions used a form of the Uniform Building Code which was the model code at the time. I'd be surprised if they don't use a virtually identical code to California's now. The Fire Code is based on NFPA, which is another national model code. EDIT....Now that I think about it, I think the Code in LA at the time was called The Southern Building Code. Most all of those regional variations are now swallowed up by the International Building Code. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2017 17:06:34 GMT -5
That may be true, but California is not the entire world, and its laws don't apply to good people, thank God.
No, I would not want this in a crowded area, but if it is in an outbuilding out somewhere on my Montana ranch, it is not a public safety issue. The California codes are virtually identical to national model codes. Back in the day, I actually had an Architectural license in Louisiana, and back then, most LA jurisdictions used a form of the Uniform Building Code which was the model code at the time. I'd be surprised if they don't use a virtually identical code to California's now. The Fire Code is based on NFPA, which is another national model code. EDIT....Now that I think about it, I think the Code in LA at the time was called The Southern Building Code. Most all of those regional variations are now swallowed up by the International Building Code.
I said "ammunition," not black powder, dynamite, or any other type of explosive.
Maybe start a wildfire if things go bad, but that could happen if the barn or the tractor catches fire, too.
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Post by Walter on Feb 10, 2017 17:15:52 GMT -5
The California codes are virtually identical to national model codes. Back in the day, I actually had an Architectural license in Louisiana, and back then, most LA jurisdictions used a form of the Uniform Building Code which was the model code at the time. I'd be surprised if they don't use a virtually identical code to California's now. The Fire Code is based on NFPA, which is another national model code. EDIT....Now that I think about it, I think the Code in LA at the time was called The Southern Building Code. Most all of those regional variations are now swallowed up by the International Building Code.
I said "ammunition," not black powder, dynamite, or any other type of explosive.
Maybe start a wildfire if things go bad, but that could happen if the barn or the tractor catches fire, too.
From a fire-fighting perspective, and that is really all this is about, I would guess there are some technical complications associated with the materials, maybe heat of the fire; stuff like that. I don't know what that might be, but they don't make this shit up and come up with limits for the fun of it. If the garage in that picture became engulfed in flames would there be complications in how to put out the fire? I have no idea about the answer to that, but somebody does, and they wrote a code section addressing it. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2017 17:55:48 GMT -5
Well, I'll admit I don't know much about building and fire codes, but I still don't see the harm in storing ammunition in an outbuilding on remote property.
I said "ammunition," not black powder, dynamite, or any other type of explosive.
Maybe start a wildfire if things go bad, but that could happen if the barn or the tractor catches fire, too.
From a fire-fighting perspective, and that is really all this is about, I would guess there are some technical complications associated with the materials, maybe heat of the fire; stuff like that. I don't know what that might be, but they don't make this shit up and come up with limits for the fun of it. If the garage in that picture became engulfed in flames would there be complications in how to put out the fire? I have no idea about the answer to that, but somebody does, and they wrote a code section addressing it.
I've been in on HazMat meetings, and fire depts, including private industrial firefighters have protocols on how to handle different situations, including obviously, hazardous materials.
I CAN say that after seeing firefighters in action, even helping them a few times, I would NEVER be a fireman. That's way too dangerous for me!
I've been into one burning house unprotected, before the FD got there to get the elderly occupants out, and being forced to crawl because of the smoke and stuff scared me to death. The fear of burning to death can almost paralyze me, and I admit it. |
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Post by Walter on Feb 10, 2017 18:14:19 GMT -5
From a fire-fighting perspective, and that is really all this is about, I would guess there are some technical complications associated with the materials, maybe heat of the fire; stuff like that. I don't know what that might be, but they don't make this shit up and come up with limits for the fun of it. If the garage in that picture became engulfed in flames would there be complications in how to put out the fire? I have no idea about the answer to that, but somebody does, and they wrote a code section addressing it.
I've been in on HazMat meetings, and fire depts, including private industrial firefighters have protocols on how to handle different situations, including obviously, hazardous materials.
I CAN say that after seeing firefighters in action, even helping them a few times, I would NEVER be a fireman. That's way too dangerous for me!
I've been into one burning house unprotected, before the FD got there to get the elderly occupants out, and being forced to crawl because of the smoke and stuff scared me to death. The fear of burning to death can almost paralyze me, and I admit it. And there you go. The Building Code has a specific section dedicated to all sorts of Haz Mat materials. Hazardous materials has its own occupancy class and has its own set of rules of construction, what materials it can be constructed of, what types of buildings can be near it. In my dealings with Fire authorities, I find that I am often surprised about things that concern them that I wouldn't think about, but that, as soon as they say it, makes total sense. "When this happens, we want THAT to happen, not that other thing". The way they deal with things is sometimes ass-backwards from how I approach the same idea, but then, as a fire department plan checker once told me....that sorta makes sense. I'm around when the thing is going up, and they're around when it's coming down. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2017 18:25:10 GMT -5
I'm referring to a dedicated outbuilding, not a garage. No, I would NOT want anything like that anywhere in my town or other densely populated area.
I've been in on HazMat meetings, and fire depts, including private industrial firefighters have protocols on how to handle different situations, including obviously, hazardous materials.
I CAN say that after seeing firefighters in action, even helping them a few times, I would NEVER be a fireman. That's way too dangerous for me!
I've been into one burning house unprotected, before the FD got there to get the elderly occupants out, and being forced to crawl because of the smoke and stuff scared me to death. The fear of burning to death can almost paralyze me, and I admit it. And there you go. The Building Code has a specific section dedicated to all sorts of Haz Mat materials. Hazardous materials has its own occupancy class and has its own set of rules of construction, what materials it can be constructed of, what types of buildings can be near it. In my dealings with Fire authorities, I find that I am often surprised about things that concern them that I wouldn't think about, but that, as soon as they say it, makes total sense. "When this happens, we want THAT to happen, not that other thing". The way they deal with things is sometimes ass-backwards from how I approach the same idea, but then, as a fire department plan checker once told me....that sorta makes sense. I'm around when the thing is going up, and they're around when it's coming down.
This is what can happen if you don't know literally what you are getting into:chronicle.augusta.com/news/2017-02-05/richmond-county-deputy-dies-after-inhaling-liquid-nitrogen |
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Post by bgovolfan on Feb 10, 2017 18:27:50 GMT -5
If the cans are full then it wouldnt matter how for out in the sticks it was. It would violate the building code if it was just a residential garage.
many rural communities have no codes or a codes department .... other than electrical and sewage, which is enforced and inspected by the state to meet state and fed codes...In addition setting up a manufactured house is also inspected...but that is a fed law subbed out to many states as the "enforcer" I spent 15 years in codes enforcement as a codes inspector Bg(so don't question my words  )VolFan |
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Post by Walter on Feb 10, 2017 19:39:47 GMT -5
what building code.....SPECIFICALLY ?
many rural communities have no codes or a codes department .... other than electrical and sewage, which is enforced and inspected by the state to meet state and fed codes...In addition setting up a manufactured house is also inspected...but that is a fed law subbed out to many states as the "enforcer" I spent 15 years in codes enforcement as a codes inspector Bg(so don't question my words )VolFan LOL...I've heard legends about such jurisdictions over the years. Hard to imagine it in 2017. There isn't a square inch inside California that isn't governed by the state code. |
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Post by roxalot on Feb 10, 2017 20:26:39 GMT -5
There isn't a square inch inside California that isn't governed by the state. [/quote]
fify.
RAC'IST:
noun;
1.Someone who wins an argument with a liberal.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2017 21:01:35 GMT -5
So exactly how much ammo does the CBC say you CAN store in your house, Walt, or lake, as it were? According to the Fire Code, small arms ammunition is a Division 1.4 explosive. Table 307.1(1) says you can store up to 50 cubic feet, or what they call "solid pounds" of the stuff before you cross over into an H occupancy requirement. How the hell they measure ammunition with those wierd-ass units of measure beats the hell out of me, so I have no idea how many rounds or size of round that is, but I'm sure a Fire Inspector would know, and I'd guess that photo shows more than the limit. A .50 cal ammo can is about 7" high, 6" wide and 10" long (roughly) and holds 1000 rounds of 5.56 still in their 20 or 30 round boxes, maybe 1200 loose. So you could have a 5'x10' flat of ammo cans and still be less than 50 cubic feet. Just guestimating on the math here but let's say that's approx. 75,000 rounds of 5.56. Quadruple that for .22LR. That's a lot of rounds. Now take away the cans, the boxes and the space between the rounds to get a rough idea of 'solid pounds' I'd say Fred has a hell of a lot more ammo to fumble and bumble into a deep body of water... |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2017 21:04:53 GMT -5
Well, I'll admit I don't know much about building and fire codes, but I still don't see the harm in storing ammunition in an outbuilding on remote property.
I said "ammunition," not black powder, dynamite, or any other type of explosive.
Maybe start a wildfire if things go bad, but that could happen if the barn or the tractor catches fire, too.
From a fire-fighting perspective, and that is really all this is about, I would guess there are some technical complications associated with the materials, maybe heat of the fire; stuff like that. I don't know what that might be, but they don't make this shit up and come up with limits for the fun of it. If the garage in that picture became engulfed in flames would there be complications in how to put out the fire? I have no idea about the answer to that, but somebody does, and they wrote a code section addressing it. Those are empty cans, Walt. I'm 99% sure of it. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2017 21:12:00 GMT -5
Here's the video for you newbs to the wonderful world of ammunition.
What a waste of good ammo!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2017 0:09:26 GMT -5
Here's the video for you newbs to the wonderful world of ammunition. What a waste of good ammo!
400,000 rounds would last ME the rest of my life.
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Post by Walter on Feb 11, 2017 0:14:59 GMT -5
Here's the video for you newbs to the wonderful world of ammunition. What a waste of good ammo!
400,000 rounds would last ME the rest of my life.
As interesting as that was, and I thank Fred for the info, if I am a firefighter called to put out a raging garage fire, I think I am happier that Table 307.1 (1) exists than that it doesnt. The restriction remains a prudent code provision, IMO. There are a lot of "maybes" in the code that are less dangerous that are forbidden. For instance, I had a big fight with the City of Los Angeles Fire Department about the inherent danger of a 3 bbl vat of fermenting beer. They claimed it to be too dangerous to be unprotected in a restaurant in case of fire. I lost that argument even though I showed them that alcohol will not ignite in concentrations less than 20% and that yeast dies in concentrations less than that, proving that beer is not possibly a flammable liquid. |
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)VolFan 
