HERE COMES LZ'S MINIATURE 757... WAIT FOR IT...

[Deleted]

Apr 11, 2017 16:14:48 GMT -5 daleko said:

Apr 11, 2017 13:04:12 GMT -5 DrSchadenfreude said:

Walter,

     I don't have my speakers hooked up here at the office.  (I'm on my lunch break.)

     Can you spell out for us how the above clip differs from the Mineta transcript I posted above?

    

Pssst ear buds work great.

Nice try, Walter, but no cigar.  You lose again.  Here's the proof.

In your video clip, Mineta says, precisely what my above transcript reports.

First, Lee Hamilton tries to coax Mineta into saying that the "order" Cheney referred to was about Flight 93.  But Mineta says, "No.  It was the plane (AA 77) that hit the Pentagon."

Then Hamilton argues that the "order" Cheney mentioned was a "shoot down" order from President Bush.

BUT... the evidence shows that Bush never issued a "shoot down" order until AFTER the Pentagon was hit.*

OOPS... 

(BTW, thanks for refusing to answer yet another straightforward question in our debates.)


*  "President Bush had not authorized military pilots to shoot down any civilian planes until after the crash at the Pentagon, and military officials have questioned what fighters would have been able to do even if they had been in time. Nonetheless, the NORAD timeline quantifies how close they were to the scene of the Sept. 11 hijackings. "


–The FAA notified NORAD at 9:24 a.m. that a third jet, American Flight 77 bound from Washington to Los Angeles, had been hijacked. NORAD ordered two F-16 fighters from Langley Air Force Base in Virginia to intercept the airliner.

–The fighters were airborne at 9:30 a.m., but were 12 minutes, or 105 miles, away when the airliner struck the Pentagon.

After the Pentagon strike, Bush authorized fighters to shoot down any other aircraft that threatened targets in Washington.

www.attackonamerica.net/8minutesaway.htm

[Walter]

Apr 11, 2017 20:53:55 GMT -5 DrSchadenfreude said:

Apr 11, 2017 16:14:48 GMT -5 daleko said:

Pssst ear buds work great.

Nice try, Walter, but no cigar.  You lose again.  Here's the proof.

In your video clip, Mineta says, precisely what my above transcript reports.

First, Lee Hamilton tries to coax Mineta into saying that the "order" Cheney referred to was about Flight 93.  But Mineta says, "No.  It was the plane (AA 77) that hit the Pentagon."

Then Hamilton argues that the "order" Cheney mentioned was a "shoot down" order from President Bush.

BUT... the evidence shows that Bush never issued a "shoot down" order until AFTER the Pentagon was hit.*

OOPS... 

(BTW, thanks for refusing to answer yet another straightforward question in our debates.)


*  "President Bush had not authorized military pilots to shoot down any civilian planes until after the crash at the Pentagon, and military officials have questioned what fighters would have been able to do even if they had been in time. Nonetheless, the NORAD timeline quantifies how close they were to the scene of the Sept. 11 hijackings. "


–The FAA notified NORAD at 9:24 a.m. that a third jet, American Flight 77 bound from Washington to Los Angeles, had been hijacked. NORAD ordered two F-16 fighters from Langley Air Force Base in Virginia to intercept the airliner.

–The fighters were airborne at 9:30 a.m., but were 12 minutes, or 105 miles, away when the airliner struck the Pentagon.

After the Pentagon strike, Bush authorized fighters to shoot down any other aircraft that threatened targets in Washington.

www.attackonamerica.net/8minutesaway.htm

Nice try, but that is not what Mineta says. You are supposing that Mineta misunderstood because it fits your narrative. That is different than your assertion that he said something about a stand down order. That was never spoken.

[Deleted]

Apr 11, 2017 23:12:29 GMT -5 Walter said:

Apr 11, 2017 20:53:55 GMT -5 DrSchadenfreude said:

Nice try, Walter, but no cigar.  You lose again.  Here's the proof.

In your video clip, Mineta says, precisely what my above transcript reports.

First, Lee Hamilton tries to coax Mineta into saying that the "order" Cheney referred to was about Flight 93.  But Mineta says, "No.  It was the plane (AA 77) that hit the Pentagon."

Then Hamilton argues that the "order" Cheney mentioned was a "shoot down" order from President Bush.

BUT... the evidence shows that Bush never issued a "shoot down" order until AFTER the Pentagon was hit.*

OOPS... 

(BTW, thanks for refusing to answer yet another straightforward question in our debates.)


*  "President Bush had not authorized military pilots to shoot down any civilian planes until after the crash at the Pentagon, and military officials have questioned what fighters would have been able to do even if they had been in time. Nonetheless, the NORAD timeline quantifies how close they were to the scene of the Sept. 11 hijackings. "


–The FAA notified NORAD at 9:24 a.m. that a third jet, American Flight 77 bound from Washington to Los Angeles, had been hijacked. NORAD ordered two F-16 fighters from Langley Air Force Base in Virginia to intercept the airliner.

–The fighters were airborne at 9:30 a.m., but were 12 minutes, or 105 miles, away when the airliner struck the Pentagon.

After the Pentagon strike, Bush authorized fighters to shoot down any other aircraft that threatened targets in Washington.

www.attackonamerica.net/8minutesaway.htm

Nice try, but that is not what Mineta says. You are supposing that Mineta misunderstood because it fits your narrative. That is different than your assertion that he said something about a stand down order. That was never spoken.

Huh, Walter?  Your comment makes no sense.

Tell us what "order" Dick Cheney was talking about, in your view.

If it was a "shoot down" order, why did the military officer keep asking Cheney if the "order still stands" as the plane got closer to D.C.?  Explain.

[daleko]

Apr 11, 2017 23:12:29 GMT -5 Walter said:

Apr 11, 2017 20:53:55 GMT -5 DrSchadenfreude said:

Nice try, Walter, but no cigar.  You lose again.  Here's the proof.

In your video clip, Mineta says, precisely what my above transcript reports.

First, Lee Hamilton tries to coax Mineta into saying that the "order" Cheney referred to was about Flight 93.  But Mineta says, "No.  It was the plane (AA 77) that hit the Pentagon."

Then Hamilton argues that the "order" Cheney mentioned was a "shoot down" order from President Bush.

BUT... the evidence shows that Bush never issued a "shoot down" order until AFTER the Pentagon was hit.*

OOPS... 

(BTW, thanks for refusing to answer yet another straightforward question in our debates.)


*  "President Bush had not authorized military pilots to shoot down any civilian planes until after the crash at the Pentagon, and military officials have questioned what fighters would have been able to do even if they had been in time. Nonetheless, the NORAD timeline quantifies how close they were to the scene of the Sept. 11 hijackings. "


–The FAA notified NORAD at 9:24 a.m. that a third jet, American Flight 77 bound from Washington to Los Angeles, had been hijacked. NORAD ordered two F-16 fighters from Langley Air Force Base in Virginia to intercept the airliner.

–The fighters were airborne at 9:30 a.m., but were 12 minutes, or 105 miles, away when the airliner struck the Pentagon.

After the Pentagon strike, Bush authorized fighters to shoot down any other aircraft that threatened targets in Washington.

www.attackonamerica.net/8minutesaway.htm

Nice try, but that is not what Mineta says. You are supposing that Mineta misunderstood because it fits your narrative. That is different than your assertion that he said something about a stand down order. That was never spoken.

After Willie reads the tea leaves he smokes them. Bad trip w weird hallucinations. 

[Walter]

Apr 11, 2017 23:45:09 GMT -5 DrSchadenfreude said:

Apr 11, 2017 23:12:29 GMT -5 Walter said:

Nice try, but that is not what Mineta says. You are supposing that Mineta misunderstood because it fits your narrative. That is different than your assertion that he said something about a stand down order. That was never spoken.

Huh, Walter?  Your comment makes no sense.

Tell us what "order" Dick Cheney was talking about, in your view.

If it was a "shoot down" order, why did the military officer keep asking Cheney if the "order still stands" as the plane got closer to D.C.?  Explain.

Why dont you ask George Bush? In his book he says the order was given after the second plane...er...hologram...hit the WTC.

[Deleted]

Apr 11, 2017 18:19:16 GMT -5 Walter said:

Apr 11, 2017 13:04:12 GMT -5 DrSchadenfreude said:

Walter,

     I don't have my speakers hooked up here at the office.  (I'm on my lunch break.)

     Can you spell out for us how the above clip differs from the Mineta transcript I posted above?

    

The order that Cheney was referring to was an order to shoot down civilian aircraft, not a stand down order.

And of course THIS excerpt from the article PROVES that it was an airliner that hit the Pentagon.


*****************************************************************************************************************
"I was made aware of it during the time that the airplane coming into the Pentagon. There was a young man who had come in and said to the vice president, “The plane is 50 miles out. The plane is 30 miles out.” And when it got down to, “The plane is 10 miles out,” the young man also said to the vice president, “Do the orders still stand?” And the vice president turned and whipped his neck around and said, “Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?”
******************************************************************************************************************


Now Walt ---- can you PLEASE delete any further bullshit from Willie about a missile and the Pentagon? 
If they could track its range on radar, they could also determine the SIZE of the target.

[Deleted]

Apr 12, 2017 9:33:42 GMT -5 Walter said:

Apr 11, 2017 23:45:09 GMT -5 DrSchadenfreude said:

Huh, Walter?  Your comment makes no sense.

Tell us what "order" Dick Cheney was talking about, in your view.

If it was a "shoot down" order, why did the military officer keep asking Cheney if the "order still stands" as the plane got closer to D.C.?  Explain.

Why dont you ask George Bush? In his book he says the order was given after the second plane...er...hologram...hit the WTC.

What evidence do you have support what Bush's ghostwriter made up in his book?  Please post it.

Here's my link.*

Also, if it was a "shoot down" order, explain why the officer would have repeatedly asked Cheney if "the order still stands?"  That makes no sense.


* "President Bush had not authorized military pilots to shoot down any civilian planes until after the crash at the Pentagon, and military officials have questioned what fighters would have been able to do even if they had been in time. Nonetheless, the NORAD timeline quantifies how close they were to the scene of the Sept. 11 hijackings. "


–The FAA notified NORAD at 9:24 a.m. that a third jet, American Flight 77 bound from Washington to Los Angeles, had been hijacked. NORAD ordered two F-16 fighters from Langley Air Force Base in Virginia to intercept the airliner.

–The fighters were airborne at 9:30 a.m., but were 12 minutes, or 105 miles, away when the airliner struck the Pentagon.

After the Pentagon strike, Bush authorized fighters to shoot down any other aircraft that threatened targets in Washington.

www.attackonamerica.net/8minutesaway.htm

Read more: aolcfboutcasts.proboards.com/post/346008/quote/28692?page=3#ixzz4e3NWzQ4b

[Walter]

Apr 12, 2017 11:33:20 GMT -5 DrSchadenfreude said:

Apr 12, 2017 9:33:42 GMT -5 Walter said:

Why dont you ask George Bush? In his book he says the order was given after the second plane...er...hologram...hit the WTC.

What evidence do you have support what Bush's ghostwriter made up in his book?  Please post it.

Here's my link.*

Also, if it was a "shoot down" order, explain why the officer would have repeatedly asked Cheney if "the order still stands?"  That makes no sense.


* "President Bush had not authorized military pilots to shoot down any civilian planes until after the crash at the Pentagon, and military officials have questioned what fighters would have been able to do even if they had been in time. Nonetheless, the NORAD timeline quantifies how close they were to the scene of the Sept. 11 hijackings. "


–The FAA notified NORAD at 9:24 a.m. that a third jet, American Flight 77 bound from Washington to Los Angeles, had been hijacked. NORAD ordered two F-16 fighters from Langley Air Force Base in Virginia to intercept the airliner.

–The fighters were airborne at 9:30 a.m., but were 12 minutes, or 105 miles, away when the airliner struck the Pentagon.

After the Pentagon strike, Bush authorized fighters to shoot down any other aircraft that threatened targets in Washington.

www.attackonamerica.net/8minutesaway.htm

Read more: aolcfboutcasts.proboards.com/post/346008/quote/28692?page=3#ixzz4e3NWzQ4b

Willie....your own source cites a NORAD timeline that shows that F-16s in the air and on their way to DC when 77 smashed into the Pentagon, exactly as Mineta describes. It also shows that fighters were sent to intercept flight 93 as it headed toward DC. We also know that Bush initially actually thought that 93 HAD been shot down by his order. So taken together, that constitutes a stand down order....how, exactly?

[Walter]

Apr 12, 2017 11:58:20 GMT -5 Walter said:

Apr 12, 2017 11:33:20 GMT -5 DrSchadenfreude said:

What evidence do you have support what Bush's ghostwriter made up in his book?  Please post it.

Here's my link.*

Also, if it was a "shoot down" order, explain why the officer would have repeatedly asked Cheney if "the order still stands?"  That makes no sense.


* "President Bush had not authorized military pilots to shoot down any civilian planes until after the crash at the Pentagon, and military officials have questioned what fighters would have been able to do even if they had been in time. Nonetheless, the NORAD timeline quantifies how close they were to the scene of the Sept. 11 hijackings. "


–The FAA notified NORAD at 9:24 a.m. that a third jet, American Flight 77 bound from Washington to Los Angeles, had been hijacked. NORAD ordered two F-16 fighters from Langley Air Force Base in Virginia to intercept the airliner.

–The fighters were airborne at 9:30 a.m., but were 12 minutes, or 105 miles, away when the airliner struck the Pentagon.

After the Pentagon strike, Bush authorized fighters to shoot down any other aircraft that threatened targets in Washington.

www.attackonamerica.net/8minutesaway.htm

Read more: aolcfboutcasts.proboards.com/post/346008/quote/28692?page=3#ixzz4e3NWzQ4b

Willie....your own source cites a NORAD timeline that shows that F-16s in the air and on their way to DC when 77 smashed into the Pentagon, exactly as Mineta describes. It also shows that fighters were sent to intercept flight 93 as it headed toward DC. We also know that Bush initially actually thought that 93 HAD been shot down by his order. So taken together, that constitutes a stand down order....how, exactly?

You seem to be arguing both ideas simultaneously. If planes were in the air, how is that a stand down order? If it wasn't a plane that hit the Pentagon, why bother with a stand down order? Ain't no fighter jet going to shoot down a cruise missile. Oh....and BTW....from where did that cruise missile start its flight? Sea based? If so, you're telling us that the entire crew of a ship has kept mum about firing a cruise missile at their own fellow Navy personnel in the Pentagon for 16 years? Really?

In short, you're all over the map. You're a whack-a-mole. It's a plane. It's not a plane. Make up your mind.

And no. Bush ordered the shoot down after the second plane hit the WTC. That's just a plain fact, and obscure websites that say otherwise are just plain wrong.

[Deleted]

     Nice try, Walter, but your kooky Bush-Cheney revisionist conspiracy theory is shot down by none other than...  wait for it...  George W. Bush, himself...   OUCH!! 

     Do you and the Cheese have any other kooky conspiracy theories to explain away Dick Cheney's "stand down" order on 9/11?

www.911truth.org/911-report-testimony-altered-hide-cheney-role-pentagon-hit/

In an interview given after 9/11, President George W. Bush confirmed that he had given the order to shoot down any “commercial aircraft that did not respond” to requests for identification only after “the third plane had hit the Pentagon,” which was at 9:37a.m. *   Bush said that this was the “first decision” he made on Air Force One after the full extent of the attacks became apparent.

The Twin Towers had been hit earlier, at 8:46 a.m. and 9:03 a.m.

Norman Mineta testified before the 9/11 Commission that, in the command bunker known as the Presidential Emergency Operations Center, hijacked American Airlines Flight 77 was being tracked on radar as it approached the Pentagon, between 9:26a.m. and 9:37, and a junior officer kept asking Cheney if the order regarding the shooting down of unresponsive aircraft was still in effect. Bush’s authorization after the Pentagon was hit implies that before this, there was no standing order to shoot down possibly hostile aircraft.

The standing order would therefore have been not to shoot.

In answer Cheney replied in the negative, that the standing order should not be reversed.

In the official transcript of Mineta’s testimony ** before the Commission, Mineta says:

MR. MINETA:…I was made aware of it during the time that the airplane coming into the Pentagon. There was a young man who had come in and said to the vice president, “The plane is 50 miles out. The plane is 30 miles out.” And when it got down to, “The plane is 10 miles out,” the young man also said to the vice president, “Do the orders still stand?” And the vice president turned and whipped his neck around and said, “Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?”

US Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta, 9/11 Commission Testimony


*



**

[oujour76]

Apr 12, 2017 11:33:20 GMT -5 DrSchadenfreude said:

–The FAA notified NORAD at 9:24 a.m. that a third jet, American Flight 77 bound from Washington to Los Angeles, had been hijacked. NORAD ordered two F-16 fighters from Langley Air Force Base in Virginia to intercept the airliner.

How could it be a plane when you claim it was a missile?

[daleko]

Apr 12, 2017 15:00:55 GMT -5 oujour76 said:

Apr 12, 2017 11:33:20 GMT -5 DrSchadenfreude said:

–The FAA notified NORAD at 9:24 a.m. that a third jet, American Flight 77 bound from Washington to Los Angeles, had been hijacked. NORAD ordered two F-16 fighters from Langley Air Force Base in Virginia to intercept the airliner.

How could it be a plane when you claim it was a missile?

Shhhhhhhhhhh, he's dancen. Actually the problem is there are three individuals posting and they sometimes jump in, in the middle. Co-ordination is lacking and sometimes apparent.

[Walter]

Apr 12, 2017 13:49:54 GMT -5 DrSchadenfreude said:

     Nice try, Walter, but your kooky Bush-Cheney revisionist conspiracy theory is shot down by none other than...  wait for it...  George W. Bush, himself...   OUCH!! 

     Do you and the Cheese have any other kooky conspiracy theories to explain away Dick Cheney's "stand down" order on 9/11?

www.911truth.org/911-report-testimony-altered-hide-cheney-role-pentagon-hit/

In an interview given after 9/11, President George W. Bush confirmed that he had given the order to shoot down any “commercial aircraft that did not respond” to requests for identification only after “the third plane had hit the Pentagon,” which was at 9:37a.m. *   Bush said that this was the “first decision” he made on Air Force One after the full extent of the attacks became apparent.

The Twin Towers had been hit earlier, at 8:46 a.m. and 9:03 a.m.

Norman Mineta testified before the 9/11 Commission that, in the command bunker known as the Presidential Emergency Operations Center, hijacked American Airlines Flight 77 was being tracked on radar as it approached the Pentagon, between 9:26a.m. and 9:37, and a junior officer kept asking Cheney if the order regarding the shooting down of unresponsive aircraft was still in effect. Bush’s authorization after the Pentagon was hit implies that before this, there was no standing order to shoot down possibly hostile aircraft.

The standing order would therefore have been not to shoot.

In answer Cheney replied in the negative, that the standing order should not be reversed.

In the official transcript of Mineta’s testimony ** before the Commission, Mineta says:

MR. MINETA:…I was made aware of it during the time that the airplane coming into the Pentagon. There was a young man who had come in and said to the vice president, “The plane is 50 miles out. The plane is 30 miles out.” And when it got down to, “The plane is 10 miles out,” the young man also said to the vice president, “Do the orders still stand?” And the vice president turned and whipped his neck around and said, “Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?”

US Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta, 9/11 Commission

Wait. You are claiming there was a standing order not to shoot down a civilian plane that someone had to ask about? That implies there had to be an order to shoot down a plane prior to that, because not shooting down planes is the status quo every day in America and throughout the world, no?

[oujour76]

Apr 12, 2017 17:01:20 GMT -5 Walter said:

Wait. You are claiming there was a standing order not to shoot down a civilian plane that someone had to ask about? That implies there had to be an order to shoot down a plane prior to that, because not shooting down planes is the status quo every day in America and throughout the world, no?

Yep. On 9/11 a Presidential Directive was needed to shoot down a civilian plane. Not the case today.

[Deleted]

Moving right along with the implications of the proven facts...  Next question...

Why would Dick Cheney have enforced a "stand down" order as the flying object approached Washington, D.C.?

Remember that Cheney already knew that two airplanes had just hit the WTC towers.

Any theories, fellas?