Fervor for the Second Amendment Rooted in Slave Patrols

[daleko]

Oct 8, 2022 8:40:57 GMT -5 Walter said:

Oct 8, 2022 8:34:21 GMT -5 dilligaf said:

As many as 40% of guns used in crimes were legally procured, either bought via private party transaction, gun shows, or gifted from friends and relatives.

It is an interesting contention, worthy of review. And you've added an "as many as" out.

However, given the history of gun control advocates fudging, even creating the "data", certainly you'd understand questioning it. 

Hillary Cliton claimed in '15 that 40% of all guns sold were sold at Gun Shows. Clinton made this statement while decrying what she called a “loophole” in the law that permitted guns sales without a background check. It was hyperbole, citing gun shows only, then and today.

Many sellers at guns shows actually have an FFL and conduct background checks, while 17 states (including California, New York and Illinois) have passed laws which require at least background checks on all handgun sales at gun shows.

In her contention, she did include all three areas you mentioned, to suggest that 40% of all sales involved those three channels.  

WaPo gave Cliton three Pinocchios.

So 40% of sales are involved in 40% of criminal activities. And yet.

According to the ATF, most common ways criminals, by far, get guns is through straw purchase sales. Nearly 50%. The next biggest source of illegal gun transactions where criminals get guns are sales made by legally licensed but corrupt at-home and commercial gun dealers. Another large source of guns used in crimes are unlicensed street dealers who either get their guns through illegal transactions with licensed dealers, straw purchases, and from gun thefts. These illegal dealers turn around and sell these illegally on the street. Legally purchased but stolen guns and criminals gaining access to guns through family and friends, either through sales, theft or as gifts are at the bottom of the list.

Perhaps I'm not understanding your contention. 

[dilligaf]

Oct 8, 2022 8:59:13 GMT -5 Walter said:

Oct 8, 2022 8:45:05 GMT -5 dilligaf said:

Look at the number of legal gun owners in the U.S.
Look at the number of people who commit crimes with guns they own legally.

Let me know what your looking reveals.

I get it that you want to disarm Americans so that Demonrats can more easily control them, but that is NOT going to happen.
Sorry.

The number is additive. A gun owner could possess a gun for 40 years and then become a criminal, so add up all the crimes during that period and let us know what you find.

A person who has owned guns for 40 years is well past the statistical majority age of criminals.

Stop reaching for twigs as you drown in your nonsense.

We all know you want to deny American citizens' rights.  It's what Demonrats do, and you won't be happy until American citizens are enslaved.

[DrSchadenfreude]

Oct 10, 2022 20:51:33 GMT -5 dilligaf said:

Oct 8, 2022 8:59:13 GMT -5 Walter said:

The number is additive. A gun owner could possess a gun for 40 years and then become a criminal, so add up all the crimes during that period and let us know what you find.

A person who has owned guns for 40 years is well past the statistical majority age of criminals.

Stop reaching for twigs as you drown in your nonsense.

We all know you want to deny American citizens' rights.  It's what Demonrats do, and you won't be happy until American citizens are enslaved.

That begs the question of what constitutes a rational, legitimate Constitutional "right" to bear muskets-- for members of well-regulated 18th century state militias.

See if you can figure that out.

[DrSchadenfreude]

[Panama pfRedd]

Oct 10, 2022 20:51:33 GMT -5 dilligaf said:

Oct 8, 2022 8:59:13 GMT -5 Walter said:

The number is additive. A gun owner could possess a gun for 40 years and then become a criminal, so add up all the crimes during that period and let us know what you find.

A person who has owned guns for 40 years is well past the statistical majority age of criminals.

Stop reaching for twigs as you drown in your nonsense.

We all know you want to deny American citizens' rights.  It's what Demonrats do, and you won't be happy until American citizens are enslaved.

I get you beat, Mutt... I've owned guns for over 50 years but I believe Geezer has us both beat. Word on the street is he's owned guns since shortly after the Civil War.

[dilligaf]

Oct 19, 2022 10:43:14 GMT -5 Panama pfRedd said:

Oct 10, 2022 20:51:33 GMT -5 dilligaf said:

A person who has owned guns for 40 years is well past the statistical majority age of criminals.

Stop reaching for twigs as you drown in your nonsense.

We all know you want to deny American citizens' rights.  It's what Demonrats do, and you won't be happy until American citizens are enslaved.

I get you beat, Mutt... I've owned guns for over 50 years but I believe Geezer has us both beat. Word on the street is he's owned guns since shortly after the Civil War.

I didn't say I owned guns for 40 years ........... I was using that number as an arbitrary average.

I don't know if there was a legal minimum age for gun ownership back in 1965, '66, or so, so I'll leave it at that.

But I am next in line to own a gun from the Civil War.

[Panama pfRedd]

Oct 19, 2022 10:51:02 GMT -5 dilligaf said:

Oct 19, 2022 10:43:14 GMT -5 Panama pfRedd said:

I get you beat, Mutt... I've owned guns for over 50 years but I believe Geezer has us both beat. Word on the street is he's owned guns since shortly after the Civil War.

I didn't say I owned guns for 40 years ........... I was using that number as an arbitrary average.

I don't know if there was a legal minimum age for gun ownership back in 1965, '66, or so, so I'll leave it at that.

But I am next in line to own a gun from the Civil War.

Ok, my bad. And I don't think either one of us could afford one, unless it was a rust bucket.

[dilligaf]

Oct 19, 2022 11:10:09 GMT -5 Panama pfRedd said:

Oct 19, 2022 10:51:02 GMT -5 dilligaf said:

I didn't say I owned guns for 40 years ........... I was using that number as an arbitrary average.

I don't know if there was a legal minimum age for gun ownership back in 1965, '66, or so, so I'll leave it at that.

But I am next in line to own a gun from the Civil War.

Ok, my bad. And I don't think either one of us could afford one, unless it was a rust bucket.

The Spencer carbine I'm referring to is in perfect working order. It wouldn't hold full cock for a long time, but my older brother had that fixed.

I wish we could find a few rounds of its expensive .56-56 rimfire ammunition just to relive a bit of history and shoot it.

[Panama pfRedd]

Oct 19, 2022 11:24:50 GMT -5 dilligaf said:

Oct 19, 2022 11:10:09 GMT -5 Panama pfRedd said:

Ok, my bad. And I don't think either one of us could afford one, unless it was a rust bucket.

The Spencer carbine I'm referring to is in perfect working order. It wouldn't hold full cock for a long time, but my older brother had that fixed.

I wish we could find a few rounds of its expensive .56-56 rimfire ammunition just to relive a bit of history and shoot it.

Oh very nice!

[dilligaf]

Oct 19, 2022 12:40:50 GMT -5 Panama pfRedd said:

Oct 19, 2022 11:24:50 GMT -5 dilligaf said:

The Spencer carbine I'm referring to is in perfect working order. It wouldn't hold full cock for a long time, but my older brother had that fixed.

I wish we could find a few rounds of its expensive .56-56 rimfire ammunition just to relive a bit of history and shoot it.

Oh very nice!

We used to play with it when we were kids visiting my paternal grandparents in Natchez.  I don't know how they acquired it, but my Dad eventually inherited it. It remained unrepaired until my older brother inherited it. 

My Dad had no real interest in guns, and never owned any modern ones, although he did shoot from time to time. All he talked about was "horror stories" of the GI 1911, and how he had to pay for one after it was stolen from his plane.  He left it in its shoulder holster on the back of the pilot's seat, and it "disappeared."   He saw a guy blow a hole in the back of his hand while improperly checking the disconnector on HIS 1911.  Said it looked like he had been bitten by a shark.  I'm gonna guess most of that damage was done by the gas since it was a contact wound.

[Panama pfRedd]

Oct 19, 2022 20:55:58 GMT -5 dilligaf said:

Oct 19, 2022 12:40:50 GMT -5 Panama pfRedd said:

Oh very nice!

We used to play with it when we were kids visiting my paternal grandparents in Natchez.  I don't know how they acquired it, but my Dad eventually inherited it. It remained unrepaired until my older brother inherited it. 

My Dad had no real interest in guns, and never owned any modern ones, although he did shoot from time to time. All he talked about was "horror stories" of the GI 1911, and how he had to pay for one after it was stolen from his plane.  He left it in its shoulder holster on the back of the pilot's seat, and it "disappeared."   He saw a guy blow a hole in the back of his hand while improperly checking the disconnector on HIS 1911.  Said it looked like he had been bitten by a shark.  I'm gonna guess most of that damage was done by the gas since it was a contact wound.

Yikes and ouch!

[dilligaf]

Oct 19, 2022 22:55:51 GMT -5 Panama pfRedd said:

Oct 19, 2022 20:55:58 GMT -5 dilligaf said:

We used to play with it when we were kids visiting my paternal grandparents in Natchez.  I don't know how they acquired it, but my Dad eventually inherited it. It remained unrepaired until my older brother inherited it. 

My Dad had no real interest in guns, and never owned any modern ones, although he did shoot from time to time. All he talked about was "horror stories" of the GI 1911, and how he had to pay for one after it was stolen from his plane.  He left it in its shoulder holster on the back of the pilot's seat, and it "disappeared."   He saw a guy blow a hole in the back of his hand while improperly checking the disconnector on HIS 1911.  Said it looked like he had been bitten by a shark.  I'm gonna guess most of that damage was done by the gas since it was a contact wound.

Yikes and ouch!

My Dad just didn't like the way the GI 1911 kicked.  I don't think he was much of a pistolero, though he enjoyed shooting my brother's Ruger Single Six --- one of the old models he bought in the 60's.
Being 4 years younger, I didn't really need to own my own guns, especially after he left the guns behind to go to LSU.    They became "mine" by default.

Among the ones he left behind, I remember a .455 Webley revolver, a Browning Hi-Power, the Single Six convertible, a Marlin M99-M1 .22 rifle, a .303 Jungle Carbine, and a Winchester 1897 20 gauge shotgun.

EDIT:
That might have been a 20G Ithaca Model 37.  My memory on the shotgun is fuzzy.  I just remember using the shotgun a few times for dove hunting, but I was a lousy bird shooter.   Still am, I imagine.