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Post by Walter on Nov 28, 2016 23:10:14 GMT -5
As someone with no dog in the hunt, I think both ideas are important. Unlike the pros, there is often a huge difference between a young team in their early games and a young team in their late games. USC is testament to that. They looked awful against Bama, but though I doubt they'd beat Bama in a mulligan, I think they are playing far better football now than in September and with a few breaks might have a shot. Same for PSU. Young team that has developed over the season. That said, mscott is right as well. Specific conditions and even individual matchups can dictate an outcome that cannot be measured in a stat line. Oh NOOOO....2002 all over again... Funny you should mention that. 2002 is exactly what this team is being compared to out here this week.. Frankly, I don't think this Trojan team is in that class, but it's fun to dream. If the Trojans bury a quality bowl Top 5 opponent as the 2002 team dismantled Iowa, I will become a believer, but right now, I don't see it.
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Post by AlaCowboy on Nov 28, 2016 23:16:05 GMT -5
Oh NOOOO....2002 all over again... Funny you should mention that. 2002 is exactly what this team is being compared to out here this week.. Frankly, I don't think this Trojan team is in that class, but it's fun to dream. If the Trojans bury a quality bowl Top 5 opponent as the 2002 team dismantled Iowa, I will become a believer, but right now, I don't see it. As the #3 team in the PAC12, behind the 2 division winners, I doubt USC will face a top 5 team in a bowl. I think the #2 team in the Big12 would be a good match.
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Post by Walter on Nov 28, 2016 23:42:48 GMT -5
Funny you should mention that. 2002 is exactly what this team is being compared to out here this week.. Frankly, I don't think this Trojan team is in that class, but it's fun to dream. If the Trojans bury a quality bowl Top 5 opponent as the 2002 team dismantled Iowa, I will become a believer, but right now, I don't see it. As the #3 team in the PAC12, behind the 2 division winners, I doubt USC will face a top 5 team in a bowl. I think the #2 team in the Big12 would be a good match. I agree. AN Okst or OU team or a PSU or Wisky team seems most likely. Talk out here currently is a B12 matchup in the Cotton bowl, not bad for a team that started 1-3.
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Post by lz2112 on Nov 29, 2016 1:52:53 GMT -5
Could have been called, the announcer mentioned it. BIG difference between that (non) call the the PI called on MissedAgain. Conley had his hand on the receiver, not doubt. But as the commentator said, he didn't impede the receiver, and there was no movement, as if he HAD hooked the guy. When the PI was called on the wolvies, the DB was draped over Samuel's shoulder, preventing him from raising his arm. Could he have caught the ball? I don't know. But that he was prevented from even attempting to reach caused the flag to be thrown. What commentator are you talking about, that said Conley didn't impede the receiver? The commentator on ABC said they got away with one, and the ref probably didn't see it because he was on the other side of the field. Pretty sure Mark said he was on the same side of the field as the Michigan bench and he saw the same thing. As for Samuel? Yeah, he might have been able to catch that pass... if he was 10 feet tall. Just an opinion from a neutral observer, both of them were 50-50 calls. sometimes you get away with it, sometimes you don't. If I were a Michigan fan, I'd feel the game was stolen, but the PIs were tossup calls, and the spot seemed right. As an SEC fan, that was a really great game to watch.
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Post by mscott59 on Nov 29, 2016 9:41:49 GMT -5
Could have been called, the announcer mentioned it. BIG difference between that (non) call the the PI called on MissedAgain. Conley had his hand on the receiver, not doubt. But as the commentator said, he didn't impede the receiver, and there was no movement, as if he HAD hooked the guy. When the PI was called on the wolvies, the DB was draped over Samuel's shoulder, preventing him from raising his arm. Could he have caught the ball? I don't know. But that he was prevented from even attempting to reach caused the flag to be thrown. What commentator are you talking about, that said Conley didn't impede the receiver? The commentator on ABC said they got away with one, and the ref probably didn't see it because he was on the other side of the field. Pretty sure Mark said he was on the same side of the field as the Michigan bench and he saw the same thing. As for Samuel? Yeah, he might have been able to catch that pass... if he was 10 feet tall. well, the pass was overthrown but not by 10 feet. on the pi call vs um, the defender prevented samuel from lifting off the ground to attempt to catch the pass. that was the key imho. on the play where conley was defending the um receiver (don't remember who, i know it wasn't darboh. #9?) i could see conley's hand on the wr's right arm. that in and of itself is not a penalty. if he was preventing the wr from using both arms to attempt to catch the ball (you know, like the nitt defender did in the psu-osu game late-lol) or turned him away from the ball, obviously it's a penalty. it's also one of those often subtle moves db's get away w/a lot in today's game. in real time i thought it could have been called, and when i saw the replay it didn't change my mind. that said, what's allowed now downfield in terms of contact between wr/db makes pi calls much more difficult to make.
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Post by kaz on Nov 29, 2016 10:30:21 GMT -5
What commentator are you talking about, that said Conley didn't impede the receiver? The commentator on ABC said they got away with one, and the ref probably didn't see it because he was on the other side of the field. Pretty sure Mark said he was on the same side of the field as the Michigan bench and he saw the same thing. As for Samuel? Yeah, he might have been able to catch that pass... if he was 10 feet tall. well, the pass was overthrown but not by 10 feet. on the pi call vs um, the defender prevented samuel from lifting off the ground to attempt to catch the pass. that was the key imho. on the play where conley was defending the um receiver (don't remember who, i know it wasn't darboh. #9?) i could see conley's hand on the wr's right arm. that in and of itself is not a penalty. if he was preventing the wr from using both arms to attempt to catch the ball (you know, like the nitt defender did in the psu-osu game late-lol) or turned him away from the ball, obviously it's a penalty. it's also one of those often subtle moves db's get away w/a lot in today's game. in real time i thought it could have been called, and when i saw the replay it didn't change my mind. that said, what's allowed now downfield in terms of contact between wr/db makes pi calls much more difficult to make. Don't disagree with anything you said. Minor point, though - I didn't say the ball was 10 feet over his head, I said he might have caught it if he was 10 feet tall.
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Post by oujour76 on Nov 29, 2016 10:49:49 GMT -5
in real time i thought it could have been called, and when i saw the replay it didn't change my mind. that said, what's allowed now downfield in terms of contact between wr/db makes pi calls much more difficult to make. Refs have a tough job...however, seems that what's allowed downfield is fluid and changes almost play by play. Kind of like an ump in baseball that gives the outside strike until the 9th inning. That is what is most frustrating to me when watching games. I do think tOSU got a big break on the non-call. But, that didn't decide the game. I also think that Harbaugh is UM's worst enemy. He doesn't know when to shut his mouth...he's like a whiny, entitled little brat. Play the game. Coach the game. And then shut the f-word up. The call in question was as close as close could be and could have gone either way. UM blew a 10-point lead and coughed up the ball on the 2-yard line. That's your ballgame. Refs impact games, but they rarely decide them. And they didn't decide this one.
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Post by kaz on Nov 29, 2016 10:59:54 GMT -5
in real time i thought it could have been called, and when i saw the replay it didn't change my mind. that said, what's allowed now downfield in terms of contact between wr/db makes pi calls much more difficult to make. Refs have a tough job...however, seems that what's allowed downfield is fluid and changes almost play by play. Kind of like an ump in baseball that gives the outside strike until the 9th inning. That is what is most frustrating to me when watching games. I do think tOSU got a big break on the non-call. But, that didn't decide the game. I also think that Harbaugh is UM's worst enemy. He doesn't know when to shut his mouth...he's like a whiny, entitled little brat. Play the game. Coach the game. And then shut the f-word up. The call in question was as close as close could be and could have gone either way. UM blew a 10-point lead and coughed up the ball on the 2-yard line. That's your ballgame. Refs impact games, but they rarely decide them. And they didn't decide this one. May be true, but when you're busy shooting yourself in the foot, the last thing you need is the refs shooting you in the other foot.
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Post by mscott59 on Nov 29, 2016 11:43:44 GMT -5
in real time i thought it could have been called, and when i saw the replay it didn't change my mind. that said, what's allowed now downfield in terms of contact between wr/db makes pi calls much more difficult to make. Refs have a tough job...however, seems that what's allowed downfield is fluid and changes almost play by play. Kind of like an ump in baseball that gives the outside strike until the 9th inning. That is what is most frustrating to me when watching games. I do think tOSU got a big break on the non-call. But, that didn't decide the game. I also think that Harbaugh is UM's worst enemy. He doesn't know when to shut his mouth...he's like a whiny, entitled little brat. Play the game. Coach the game. And then shut the f-word up. The call in question was as close as close could be and could have gone either way. UM blew a 10-point lead and coughed up the ball on the 2-yard line. That's your ballgame. Refs impact games, but they rarely decide them. And they didn't decide this one. think i said on another thread that it's really easy for a lot of people to focus on one call as the tipping point of a game. um had i believe just 8 turnovers all season but osu caused 2 picks which directly led to 14 pts and um fumbled on the 2, preventing or at least delaying 7 pts (which they got the next possession on a SHORT FIELD after the fake punt call). after that td to make it 17-7 midway thru the 3rd qtr, these were the results of the rest of um's possessions in the game; 6 plays for 14 yards (ending in a pick setting up osu's 2nd td), 5 plays/16 yards, 3 plays/-6 yards, 3 plays/6 yards. 17 plays, 30 yards. um had incredible advantages all day long in field position. um started drives on their own 22, own 25, own 37, their own 35, their own 40, their own 6 (osu's pick 6), their own 45, osu's 42, osu's 22 (fake punt), own 12 (2nd pick), own 25, own 38 and own 20. more than half & of 13) started outside the um 35. osu's possessions in the 1st half? their own 8, their own 11, own 25, their own 4, their own 20, their own 25. 2nd half-own 25, own 2, own 25, um 13 (2nd pick), own 16, own 37 (hooray!), own 18. 11 of the 13 drives began on the osu 25 or worse!!! with that kind of discrepancy, you'd think after 3 qtrs um would have been up by 3 scores at least, not 17-14. they had every opportunity to put this game away, but thru 3 qtrs the offense didn't capitalize, and in the 4th their offense got shut down and osu's offense finally started moving the ball. it is a shame the calls/non-call have overshadowed the sheer drama and tension this game had, tho i guess in a way it adds to the intrigue and memorable-ness, if that's a word.
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Post by mscott59 on Nov 29, 2016 11:44:41 GMT -5
Refs have a tough job...however, seems that what's allowed downfield is fluid and changes almost play by play. Kind of like an ump in baseball that gives the outside strike until the 9th inning. That is what is most frustrating to me when watching games. I do think tOSU got a big break on the non-call. But, that didn't decide the game. I also think that Harbaugh is UM's worst enemy. He doesn't know when to shut his mouth...he's like a whiny, entitled little brat. Play the game. Coach the game. And then shut the f-word up. The call in question was as close as close could be and could have gone either way. UM blew a 10-point lead and coughed up the ball on the 2-yard line. That's your ballgame. Refs impact games, but they rarely decide them. And they didn't decide this one. May be true, but when you're busy shooting yourself in the foot, the last thing you need is the refs shooting you in the other foot. considering harbaugh's view of the officials' abilities, hard to believe their aim would be good enough to hit your other foot.
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Post by beuycek on Nov 29, 2016 15:27:50 GMT -5
"SHORT FIELD" for emphasis. Well played.
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Post by daleko on Nov 29, 2016 18:32:24 GMT -5
psu games against michigan should absolutely be considered. but imo, how you finish down the strength should matter more. if psu soundly defeats wisconsin (a big if), psu would have blown out everyone they played since they beat ohio state. at the same time, michigan lost 2 out of 3 and ohio state needed last minute finishes to win their final games. of course i'm getting ahead of myself. psu has to defeat wisconsin and vegas currently has us as a 2 pt dog. You'd think the next B1G coach of the Year would get a little respect, wouldn't you? That would be Wisky's Chryst.
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Post by snap infraction on Nov 30, 2016 9:31:59 GMT -5
You'd think the next B1G coach of the Year would get a little respect, wouldn't you? That would be Wisky's Chryst. coaches chose chryst. media chose franklin.
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Post by bamorin on Nov 30, 2016 10:31:06 GMT -5
That would be Wisky's Chryst. coaches chose chryst. media chose franklin. and the media has never called a play in a game........except at noon on the following sunday........ On another note.......will the PSU RB be ready for Saturday?
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Post by AlaCowboy on Nov 30, 2016 11:04:13 GMT -5
coaches chose chryst. media chose franklin. and the media has never called a play in a game........except at noon on the following sunday........ On another note.......will the PSU RB be ready for Saturday? So you like the coaches poll? Except when they choose a team you don't like (aka SEC) in their poll, of course.
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