Thank You, Beelzebub, for our Troll King Donald Trump

[oujour76]

Dec 28, 2022 13:44:21 GMT -5 Walter said:

Dec 28, 2022 13:26:43 GMT -5 daleko said:

All christians are the same? Is there a form of Christianity that rejects the theistic claims of Christianity, even a God but draws its beliefs and practices from Jesus' life and teachings as recorded in the NT? Essentially Christian atheism? If so, are there other variants? With a wide variety of foundational beliefs? Maybe DT is a, just not your kind of?

Interesting concept.
I'm not sure one can call oneself a Christian without the fundamental faith in the Holy Trinity.
Fan of terrestrial Jesus? Absolutely.
Christian? I dunno....Kinda reminds me of 'plant-based beef'.

Tell it to the Unitarians.

[DrSchadenfreude]

Dec 28, 2022 13:26:43 GMT -5 daleko said:

Dec 27, 2022 13:03:22 GMT -5 DrSchadenfreude said:

Incredibly, Fred and NU Big Red are still promoting the fiction that Donald Trump is a Christian.

Some guys are very slowly learners.

And some guys never learn. 

All christians are the same? Is there a form of Christianity that rejects the theistic claims of Christianity, even a God but draws its beliefs and practices from Jesus' life and teachings as recorded in the NT? Essentially Christian atheism? If so, are there other variants? With a wide variety of foundational beliefs? Maybe DT is a, just not your kind of?

Earth to Cheese Burgher Daleko...

Put on your tiny thinking cap and study Wehner's excellent analysis more carefully.

Trumpism is absolutely antithetical to Christian ethics-- leaving aside your non-Christian theological beliefs, for the moment.

Trumpism is about greed, self-aggrandizement, and contempt for the poor, sick, and suffering.

Do you know what "antithetical" means?

[daleko]

Dec 28, 2022 15:45:31 GMT -5 DrSchadenfreude said:

Dec 28, 2022 13:26:43 GMT -5 daleko said:

All christians are the same? Is there a form of Christianity that rejects the theistic claims of Christianity, even a God but draws its beliefs and practices from Jesus' life and teachings as recorded in the NT? Essentially Christian atheism? If so, are there other variants? With a wide variety of foundational beliefs? Maybe DT is a, just not your kind of?

Earth to Cheese Burgher Daleko...

Put on your tiny thinking cap and study Wehner's excellent analysis more carefully.

Trumpism is absolutely antithetical to Christian ethics-- leaving aside your non-Christian theological beliefs, for the moment.

Trumpism is about greed, self-aggrandizement, and contempt for the poor, sick, and suffering.

Do you know what "antithetical" means?

So in your opinion there is no such thing as a Christian Atheist? Christian is a word, a label, someone else can certainly use. No copy protection. His definition doesn't have to be yours.

[DrSchadenfreude]

Dec 28, 2022 17:12:17 GMT -5 daleko said:

Dec 28, 2022 15:45:31 GMT -5 DrSchadenfreude said:

Earth to Cheese Burgher Daleko...

Put on your tiny thinking cap and study Wehner's excellent analysis more carefully.

Trumpism is absolutely antithetical to Christian ethics-- leaving aside your non-Christian theological beliefs, for the moment.

Trumpism is about greed, self-aggrandizement, and contempt for the poor, sick, and suffering.

Do you know what "antithetical" means?

So in your opinion there is no such thing as a Christian Atheist? Christian is a word, a label, someone else can certainly use. No copy protection. His definition doesn't have to be yours.

Would you say the same thing about Judaism?  Islam?  Mormonism?

That anyone can define the "label" any way they want?

That makes no sense.

Are you familiar with the traditional, ancient "Symbol" of the Christian faith-- the Nicene Creed?

[oujour76]

Dec 28, 2022 17:36:36 GMT -5 DrSchadenfreude said:

Dec 28, 2022 17:12:17 GMT -5 daleko said:

So in your opinion there is no such thing as a Christian Atheist? Christian is a word, a label, someone else can certainly use. No copy protection. His definition doesn't have to be yours.

Would you say the same thing about Judaism?  Islam?  Mormonism?

That anyone can define the "label" any way they want?

That makes no sense.

Are you familiar with the traditional, ancient "Symbol" of the Christian faith-- the Nicene Creed?

You mean like Orthodox Jews? Reform Jews? Conservative Jews? Reconstructionist Jews?

[oujour76]

Dec 28, 2022 17:36:36 GMT -5 DrSchadenfreude said:

Dec 28, 2022 17:12:17 GMT -5 daleko said:

So in your opinion there is no such thing as a Christian Atheist? Christian is a word, a label, someone else can certainly use. No copy protection. His definition doesn't have to be yours.

Would you say the same thing about Judaism?  Islam?  Mormonism?

That anyone can define the "label" any way they want?

That makes no sense.

Are you familiar with the traditional, ancient "Symbol" of the Christian faith-- the Nicene Creed?

Sunni Muslims? Shia Muslims? Ibadi Muslims?

[oujour76]

Dec 28, 2022 18:06:49 GMT -5 oujour76 said:

Dec 28, 2022 17:36:36 GMT -5 DrSchadenfreude said:

Would you say the same thing about Judaism?  Islam?  Mormonism?

That anyone can define the "label" any way they want?

That makes no sense.

Are you familiar with the traditional, ancient "Symbol" of the Christian faith-- the Nicene Creed?

Sunni Muslims? Shia Muslims? Ibadi Muslims?

LDS? Community of Christ?

[DrSchadenfreude]

Dec 28, 2022 18:03:52 GMT -5 oujour76 said:

Dec 28, 2022 17:36:36 GMT -5 DrSchadenfreude said:

Would you say the same thing about Judaism?  Islam?  Mormonism?

That anyone can define the "label" any way they want?

That makes no sense.

Are you familiar with the traditional, ancient "Symbol" of the Christian faith-- the Nicene Creed?

You mean like Orthodox Jews? Reform Jews? Conservative Jews? Reconstructionist Jews?

No, that's not the point.

Can people define Judaism or Islam any way they choose, independently of any meaningful relationship to the Torah, Koran, or Hadith?  No.

Orthodox, Conservative, and Reform Jews all define their ethos in some relationship to the Torah and the traditions of Israel.

Similarly, Islam is defined in relation to the Koran.

There is some sort of Marijuana "church" here in Denver, and a "church" of Scientology, but they aren't Christian in any meaningful sense of the word.

[oujour76]

Dec 28, 2022 18:19:12 GMT -5 DrSchadenfreude said:

Dec 28, 2022 18:03:52 GMT -5 oujour76 said:

You mean like Orthodox Jews? Reform Jews? Conservative Jews? Reconstructionist Jews?

No, that's not the point.

Can people define Judaism or Islam any way they choose, independently of any meaningful relationship to the Torah, Koran, or Hadith?  No.

Orthodox, Conservative, and Reform Jews all define their ethos in some relationship to the Torah and the traditions of Israel.

Similarly, Islam is defined in relation to the Koran.

There is some sort of Marijuana "church" here in Denver, and a "church" of Scientology, but they aren't Christian in any meaningful sense of the word.

Sounds a lot like Christian denominations. Who knew?

[Walter]

Dec 28, 2022 14:59:27 GMT -5 daleko said:

Dec 28, 2022 13:44:21 GMT -5 Walter said:

Interesting concept.
I'm not sure one can call oneself a Christian without the fundamental faith in the Holy Trinity.
Fan of terrestrial Jesus? Absolutely.
Christian? I dunno....Kinda reminds me of 'plant-based beef'.

If you Google it, it's out there. That's really got me started. Were there Christian Atheists? And then it spread to different beliefs within the term Christian. Orthodox Christianity no longer had any meaning to some people because it did not discuss Christianity within the context of contemporary theology, in their view. True or not. Then again if it did it wouldn't be Orthodox, perhaps. So there are differences within the term Christian that range from A-Z. And then you extend that to some believe in a God or a non-intrusive creator. And find the man Christ to be some kind of prophet or teacher. Or many views in-between. For me, all man made to fit their view or whispers they hear. Nothing wrong w that afaic. Many certainly would believe you can't call yourself Christian unless you ..........

Trump could be the "plant based beef". Or not. My suggestion is there are a lot of definitions, along w the label.

...if you want to be high, be high
And if you want to be low, be low
'Cause there's a million ways to go
You know that there are, you know that there are.

You know it's up to you
Anything you can do.
And if you find a new way,
Well, you can do it today,
Well, you can make it all true,
And you can make it undo.

You see, it's easy,
You only need to know.

-Cat Stevens, (before he found his 'new way')

[DrSchadenfreude]

Dec 28, 2022 18:28:05 GMT -5 oujour76 said:

Dec 28, 2022 18:19:12 GMT -5 DrSchadenfreude said:

No, that's not the point.

Can people define Judaism or Islam any way they choose, independently of any meaningful relationship to the Torah, Koran, or Hadith?  No.

Orthodox, Conservative, and Reform Jews all define their ethos in some relationship to the Torah and the traditions of Israel.

Similarly, Islam is defined in relation to the Koran.

There is some sort of Marijuana "church" here in Denver, and a "church" of Scientology, but they aren't Christian in any meaningful sense of the word.

Sounds a lot like Christian denominations. Who knew?

Scientology isn't a Christian denomination, Harry.  Get a f*cking clue.

Meanwhile, do let us know if you find a Muslim or Jewish denomination that is non-theistic.

That's like claiming that there is a football team that doesn't use footballs.

[Walter]

Dec 28, 2022 18:55:36 GMT -5 DrSchadenfreude said:

Dec 28, 2022 18:28:05 GMT -5 oujour76 said:

Sounds a lot like Christian denominations. Who knew?

Scientology isn't a Christian denomination, Harry.  Get a f*cking clue.

Meanwhile, do let us know if you find a Muslim or Jewish denomination that is non-theistic.

That's like claiming that there is a football team that doesn't use footballs.

Question for you Willie:

If I somehow live my life in complete alignment with the terrestrial ways taught by Jesus in the NT, but have no faith in the Holy Trinity, am I a Christian?

[DrSchadenfreude]

Dec 28, 2022 18:58:47 GMT -5 Walter said:

Dec 28, 2022 18:55:36 GMT -5 DrSchadenfreude said:

Scientology isn't a Christian denomination, Harry.  Get a f*cking clue.

Meanwhile, do let us know if you find a Muslim or Jewish denomination that is non-theistic.

That's like claiming that there is a football team that doesn't use footballs.

Question for you Willie:

If I somehow live my life in complete alignment with the terrestrial ways taught by Jesus in the NT, but have no faith in the Holy Trinity, am I a Christian?

A Christian, IMO, is one who believes in the essential divinity and teachings of Christ.

But Christ also said, "There are those from the East and from the West who will dine with Abraham in the kingdom of heaven."

I think that statement was made in the context of talking about the pagan Roman centurion who asked Christ to heal his ill servant.

I have no idea how God will judge any man, but I do believe that the He will judge the merciful, just man favorably, and the evil, deceitful man unfavorably-- especially murderers.

"A bloody and deceitful man shall the Lord abhor."

[oujour76]

Dec 28, 2022 18:55:36 GMT -5 DrSchadenfreude said:

Dec 28, 2022 18:28:05 GMT -5 oujour76 said:

Sounds a lot like Christian denominations. Who knew?

Scientology isn't a Christian denomination, Harry.  Get a f*cking clue.

Meanwhile, do let us know if you find a Muslim or Jewish denomination that is non-theistic.

That's like claiming that there is a football team that doesn't use footballs.

Never said they were a Christian denomination. Nor does Scientology make that claim. Just more of your deflection.

[oujour76]

Dec 28, 2022 19:18:47 GMT -5 DrSchadenfreude said:

Dec 28, 2022 18:58:47 GMT -5 Walter said:

Question for you Willie:

If I somehow live my life in complete alignment with the terrestrial ways taught by Jesus in the NT, but have no faith in the Holy Trinity, am I a Christian?

A Christian, IMO, is one who believes in the essential divinity and teachings of Christ.

But Christ also said, "There are those from the East and from the West who will dine with Abraham in the kingdom of heaven."

I think that statement was made in the context of talking about the pagan Roman centurion who asked Christ to heal his ill servant.

I have no idea how God will judge any man, but I do believe that the He will judge the merciful, just man favorably, and the evil, deceitful man unfavorably-- especially murderers.

"A bloody and deceitful man shall the Lord abhor."

Sounds like Jesus doesn’t buy that true church nonsense either.