Ohio State Buckeyes

[oujour76]

Jul 9, 2013 9:52:25 GMT -5 beuycek said:

This writer is clearly not a fan of Urban Meyer. He is right, though, in his criticism.

news.cincinnati.com/article/20130708/COL03/307080088/Doc-Urban-Meyer-and-the-blame-game?nclick_check=1

Good article. Thanks for posting.

[Deleted]

To understand and be fair to Urban Meyer, you have to understand when the practice of second chances started and the result:

www.gatortailgating.com/content/urban-meyer-second-chances-the-marty-johnson-story


The reason Urban Meyer seems more willing to hand out second chances to players rather than just kick them off the team is partly because of one player that most people in Gator Nation, let alone the rest of college football, have never even heard of.

Marty Johnson was a running back for the Utah Utes, but had injured his leg during the '02 season and was supposed to never play football the same again. Dealing with the probable loss of his ultimate dream, a professional football career, he began to drink and party a lot more than normal. That eventually led to a DUI arrest in October of that same year, and a probable jail sentence in the future.

In the spring of 2003, a new coach was coming to Salt Lake City and his name was Urban Meyer. Having heard of Johnson's story, the Meyer family reached out to Johnson and they became very close. Marty would attend Gigi Meyer's baseball games, go over for dinner, and basically became a member of the Meyer family.

"(We wanted him to see) life isn't all about night clubs," commented Meyer in an ESPN interview about the Marty Johnson story.


All seemed to be going well until an early morning phone call to the Meyer house from Johnson's girlfriend in September of 2003. He had gotten a second DUI and was in jail once again.

Coach Meyer's first reaction was to cut him from the team, and possibly even from their lives altogether. "I did not want to talk to him and I did not want to see him. My reaction was that I hope he goes to prison for a long time," said Meyer.

Shelley Meyer's reaction was much different. A psychiatric nurse that specialized in addictions, she still felt Marty could change his life with a little help. "I felt like we owed it to Marty to give him a second chance. I never once thought for a minute that we should kick him off the team," explained Shelley.

After spending time in jail and being suspended indefinitely from the team, Johnson entered alcohol counseling under strict supervision. The supervision was none other than Shelley Meyer. He also had to live with a curfew, pass random urine tests, and complete community service in order to have a chance of being reinstated to the football team.

Prior to the '04 season, Johnson earned his position back on the team and was able to start for Meyer's undefeated Fiesta Bowl Champion Utes. He finished the season with 15 touchdowns and 802 rushing yards. More importantly, he graduated college with a degree in Sociology and has been alcohol-free ever since that second DUI.

"We don't get rid of players around here. That's the easy thing to do. The hard thing to do is try and correct and change them," stated Urban Meyer emphatically.

Marty Johnson is and always will be appreciative to the Meyer family. Coach Meyer not only made his dream come true (as Johnson is now in the NFL with the Philadelphia Eagles), but he also gave him a second chance at seeing what life was really all about.

"It's more than just football with him (Coach Meyer). It's about life," commented Johnson.

The point of this article isn't to argue Meyer's good deeds versus other coaches. There are a lot of stories that show another side of these coaches other than just football like Mark Richt's adoption story and Nick Saban's Upchurch story. The point of this article is to show that Meyer has a reason for second chances and it's not due to a player's talent. It's because of a decision early on his coaching career that changed one man's life, and may do the same to many others in the future. At least, that is if the athlete decides to put Meyer's second chance to work.

The giving of the second chance is up to Meyer, but the making the best of it has to come from the player.

[crayon4600]

Jun 17, 2013 4:50:38 GMT -5 beuycek said:

I will kick off the Buckeye board with an article that is right up CWG's alley...

www.elevenwarriors.com/2013/06/22833/power-rankings-ohio-states-most-hated-b1g-rivals#more

I personally don't hate any of the schools in the B1G, instead have a healthy dose of respect for each of them, although Rutgers might be one that will make it easy for me to hate one day.

I would be interested to know how many lists such as this from the other schools would result in Ohio State being #1 or #2. I am sure there are more than a few...

I don't know what OSU will be ranked during the season? However I predicted last year that the Buckeyes will play for the national title this year. I would suspect a SEC team will be their opponent (Tide or Dawgs).

With Meyer at the Controls, and the Bucks usual quantity & quality talent, this will be the Bucks best chance of winning the national title.

If the SEC top teams get tagged with 2 losses, it's possible Bucks might play the Pac 12 Champ. Lot of good teams on the West Coast.

Meyer cannot possibly supervise 125 players off field activities. A Head Coach is never going to get fired for what one of his players does off field, unless he gets involved in a 'cover up.' If a player gets caught doing something he should not be doing, the Coach finds out, then the Coach has to make the player 'walk the plank.' At that point the Coach has no choice.

[lz2112]

Jul 9, 2013 14:33:45 GMT -5 ETGator1 said:

To understand and be fair to Urban Meyer, you have to understand when the practice of second chances started and the result:

www.gatortailgating.com/content/urban-meyer-second-chances-the-marty-johnson-story


The reason Urban Meyer seems more willing to hand out second chances to players rather than just kick them off the team is partly because of one player that most people in Gator Nation, let alone the rest of college football, have never even heard of.

Marty Johnson was a running back for the Utah Utes, but had injured his leg during the '02 season and was supposed to never play football the same again. Dealing with the probable loss of his ultimate dream, a professional football career, he began to drink and party a lot more than normal. That eventually led to a DUI arrest in October of that same year, and a probable jail sentence in the future.

In the spring of 2003, a new coach was coming to Salt Lake City and his name was Urban Meyer. Having heard of Johnson's story, the Meyer family reached out to Johnson and they became very close. Marty would attend Gigi Meyer's baseball games, go over for dinner, and basically became a member of the Meyer family.

"(We wanted him to see) life isn't all about night clubs," commented Meyer in an ESPN interview about the Marty Johnson story.


All seemed to be going well until an early morning phone call to the Meyer house from Johnson's girlfriend in September of 2003. He had gotten a second DUI and was in jail once again.

Coach Meyer's first reaction was to cut him from the team, and possibly even from their lives altogether. "I did not want to talk to him and I did not want to see him. My reaction was that I hope he goes to prison for a long time," said Meyer.

Shelley Meyer's reaction was much different. A psychiatric nurse that specialized in addictions, she still felt Marty could change his life with a little help. "I felt like we owed it to Marty to give him a second chance. I never once thought for a minute that we should kick him off the team," explained Shelley.

After spending time in jail and being suspended indefinitely from the team, Johnson entered alcohol counseling under strict supervision. The supervision was none other than Shelley Meyer. He also had to live with a curfew, pass random urine tests, and complete community service in order to have a chance of being reinstated to the football team.

Prior to the '04 season, Johnson earned his position back on the team and was able to start for Meyer's undefeated Fiesta Bowl Champion Utes. He finished the season with 15 touchdowns and 802 rushing yards. More importantly, he graduated college with a degree in Sociology and has been alcohol-free ever since that second DUI.

"We don't get rid of players around here. That's the easy thing to do. The hard thing to do is try and correct and change them," stated Urban Meyer emphatically.

Marty Johnson is and always will be appreciative to the Meyer family. Coach Meyer not only made his dream come true (as Johnson is now in the NFL with the Philadelphia Eagles), but he also gave him a second chance at seeing what life was really all about.

"It's more than just football with him (Coach Meyer). It's about life," commented Johnson.

The point of this article isn't to argue Meyer's good deeds versus other coaches. There are a lot of stories that show another side of these coaches other than just football like Mark Richt's adoption story and Nick Saban's Upchurch story. The point of this article is to show that Meyer has a reason for second chances and it's not due to a player's talent. It's because of a decision early on his coaching career that changed one man's life, and may do the same to many others in the future. At least, that is if the athlete decides to put Meyer's second chance to work.

The giving of the second chance is up to Meyer, but the making the best of it has to come from the player.

I also think Avery Atkins' suicide influenced how he responded to off field problems, too.

[mscott59]

Jul 9, 2013 9:52:25 GMT -5 beuycek said:

This writer is clearly not a fan of Urban Meyer. He is right, though, in his criticism.

news.cincinnati.com/article/20130708/COL03/307080088/Doc-Urban-Meyer-and-the-blame-game?nclick_check=1

paul daugherty. sigh. columnists aren't paid for providing facts. they're paid for providing pointed opinions. and no one has a more pointed one when it comes to all things osu than doc. it's been that way for years, and he carries that banner w/lots of pride and smirks.

meyer certainly deserves his share of criticism for the off-the-field problems he had in gainesville. you hope as a coach he learned from that experience, and will do a better job of trying to set a higher level of acceptable standards... regardless of whether its in columbus or anywhere else he might have landed. but to make the leap from that to somehow becoming an enabler for a guy committing murder? ? are you serious? wow.

does that make belichek and craft enablers too? i mean hernandez is accused of killing multiple people while employed for the pats. i'm still looking for doc's article on that. oh yeah... they don't work 2 hours up i-71.

now if osu starts having the kind of behavior problems that happened at uf under meyer, or like what happened in coop's last 3 years here... then that's a trend and that imho will say a lot more about meyer's leadership. but what if that doesn't happen? what if osu remains relatively problem-free and still succeeds on and off the field? does that still mean meyer is some kind of callous win at all costs guy? the guy who took some ct kid who had tons of talent, potential and issues into his home for bible study, hoping that would set him on the right path?

i know he coaches at my alma mater and that if i side w/him i'm seen as just have rose-colored glasses, but the connection daugherty and others are trying to draw between a coach and an accused murderer has plenty of sensation but lacks a lot in terms of actual reality.

mark scott
tosu 81

[oujour76]

Jul 9, 2013 16:30:36 GMT -5 mscott59 said:

Jul 9, 2013 9:52:25 GMT -5 beuycek said:

This writer is clearly not a fan of Urban Meyer. He is right, though, in his criticism.

news.cincinnati.com/article/20130708/COL03/307080088/Doc-Urban-Meyer-and-the-blame-game?nclick_check=1

paul daugherty. sigh. columnists aren't paid for providing facts. they're paid for providing pointed opinions. and no one has a more pointed one when it comes to all things osu than doc. it's been that way for years, and he carries that banner w/lots of pride and smirks.

meyer certainly deserves his share of criticism for the off-the-field problems he had in gainesville. you hope as a coach he learned from that experience, and will do a better job of trying to set a higher level of acceptable standards... regardless of whether its in columbus or anywhere else he might have landed. but to make the leap from that to somehow becoming an enabler for a guy committing murder? ? are you serious? wow.

does that make belichek and craft enablers too? i mean hernandez is accused of killing multiple people while employed for the pats. i'm still looking for doc's article on that. oh yeah... they don't work 2 hours up i-71.

now if osu starts having the kind of behavior problems that happened at uf under meyer, or like what happened in coop's last 3 years here... then that's a trend and that imho will say a lot more about meyer's leadership. but what if that doesn't happen? what if osu remains relatively problem-free and still succeeds on and off the field? does that still mean meyer is some kind of callous win at all costs guy? the guy who took some ct kid who had tons of talent, potential and issues into his home for bible study, hoping that would set him on the right path?

i know he coaches at my alma mater and that if i side w/him i'm seen as just have rose-colored glasses, but the connection daugherty and others are trying to draw between a coach and an accused murderer has plenty of sensation but lacks a lot in terms of actual reality.

mark scott
tosu 81

Rose-colored glasses? Nah. Scarlet.

[mscott59]

Jul 9, 2013 16:33:13 GMT -5 oujour76 said:

Jul 9, 2013 16:30:36 GMT -5 mscott59 said:

paul daugherty. sigh. columnists aren't paid for providing facts. they're paid for providing pointed opinions. and no one has a more pointed one when it comes to all things osu than doc. it's been that way for years, and he carries that banner w/lots of pride and smirks.

meyer certainly deserves his share of criticism for the off-the-field problems he had in gainesville. you hope as a coach he learned from that experience, and will do a better job of trying to set a higher level of acceptable standards... regardless of whether its in columbus or anywhere else he might have landed. but to make the leap from that to somehow becoming an enabler for a guy committing murder? ? are you serious? wow.

does that make belichek and craft enablers too? i mean hernandez is accused of killing multiple people while employed for the pats. i'm still looking for doc's article on that. oh yeah... they don't work 2 hours up i-71.

now if osu starts having the kind of behavior problems that happened at uf under meyer, or like what happened in coop's last 3 years here... then that's a trend and that imho will say a lot more about meyer's leadership. but what if that doesn't happen? what if osu remains relatively problem-free and still succeeds on and off the field? does that still mean meyer is some kind of callous win at all costs guy? the guy who took some ct kid who had tons of talent, potential and issues into his home for bible study, hoping that would set him on the right path?

i know he coaches at my alma mater and that if i side w/him i'm seen as just have rose-colored glasses, but the connection daugherty and others are trying to draw between a coach and an accused murderer has plenty of sensation but lacks a lot in terms of actual reality.

mark scott
tosu 81

Rose-colored glasses? Nah. Scarlet.

lol. scarlet? i don't give a damn.

mark scott
tosu 81

[beuycek]

Mark, the connection to Hernandez's current situation is a stretch, we agree there but the criticism of his actions while at Florida is warranted.

I am sure he had many players over for bible study but I am not really sure what that proves as we weren't there. For all we know, Meyer hosted it but was in the other room eating cake. He did happen to have a rather well known player who frequented his home and was routinely preaching the word of God on his team at the time so I am not ready to proclaim him some kind of saint without knowing all of the facts. But again, we don't know so in some regards, it might unfair to assume that part of the story was fabricated, too.

As for all of the stories that have been posted by the Gator contingent defending Meyer's actions (incredibly ironic, by the way) doesn't make what he did/didn't do right or even acceptable and I took that as the point of the article.

The bottom line, to me, is he manufactured his own exit from Florida so I don't trust a word that comes out of his mouth. If he proves me wrong while at OSU, I will gladly apologize but until that happens... if it happens at all, he is a win-at-all costs bullshitter that is only looking out for himself and his reputation.

[Deleted]

Unless Meyer was instructed by tOSU to not give second chances as a result of the current probation caused by the Tressel regime, I expect Meyer to conduct himself with his players offering second chances as he is accustomed to. Time will tell.

[mscott59]

Jul 10, 2013 5:32:01 GMT -5 beuycek said:

Mark, the connection to Hernandez's current situation is a stretch, we agree there but the criticism of his actions while at Florida is warranted.

I am sure he had many players over for bible study but I am not really sure what that proves as we weren't there. For all we know, Meyer hosted it but was in the other room eating cake. He did happen to have a rather well known player who frequented his home and was routinely preaching the word of God on his team at the time so I am not ready to proclaim him some kind of saint without knowing all of the facts. But again, we don't know so in some regards, it might unfair to assume that part of the story was fabricated, too.

As for all of the stories that have been posted by the Gator contingent defending Meyer's actions (incredibly ironic, by the way) doesn't make what he did/didn't do right or even acceptable and I took that as the point of the article.

The bottom line, to me, is he manufactured his own exit from Florida so I don't trust a word that comes out of his mouth. If he proves me wrong while at OSU, I will gladly apologize but until that happens... if it happens at all, he is a win-at-all costs bullshitter that is only looking out for himself and his reputation.

you're right that only time will tell if meyer's rep was earned or if he was more of a victim of circumstances when it comes to the behavior of the kids on his team. as for manufacturing his departure at uf? he'd won not 1 but 2 bcs titles there. a consistent favorite for the sec title game. had a guy who was not just a Heisman winner but was someone who seemed to be a role-model for the term student athlete. his family was extremely happy in gainesville and had no desire to move. why would he scheme to leave? neither the osu nor the nd job was open at the time. would he really leave because tebow was gone? because he maybe had a down year recruiting? because he was threatened by saban's emergence? some other factor/factors? the guy is so ultra competitive, those all seem like reasons to me that he would stay.

sometimes things are what they appear on their face, w/o conspiracy. it is possible that he really did have a legitimate health scare, that he really did have no work/life balance and needed a change. and, as luck/fate would have it, soon afterward one of the only two jobs he might leave uf for would unexpectedly come open. meyer has his share of warts, but since arriving here, he's seem to be able to better channel the positives and temper his faults, w/o losing the fire that's made him a successful college coach. meyer will never be a lovable personality, or come off as appealingly (to many as you know) professorial as tressel. but he seems to be a little different here. i hope its maturity and growth as a coach and a human being. maybe its just because he hasn't lost a game yet. lol.

as for his actions/non-actions involving the behavior issues (and yes, the support for him in that vein coming from down there is pretty interesting to say the least), from this point it looks like he tried a certain approach. maybe 31 arrests in 6 years proves it was a failed approach. maybe it would have been 61 arrests if not for his efforts to reach his players off the field. we'll never know except for what was. including that he had one kid who seemed unbelievably angelic, and another who appears to have turned out to be unbelievably evil. and the inference is that meyer was somehow accountable for only the latter.

mark scott
tosu 81

[beuycek]

Jul 10, 2013 8:37:08 GMT -5 mscott59 said:

Jul 10, 2013 5:32:01 GMT -5 beuycek said:

Mark, the connection to Hernandez's current situation is a stretch, we agree there but the criticism of his actions while at Florida is warranted.

I am sure he had many players over for bible study but I am not really sure what that proves as we weren't there. For all we know, Meyer hosted it but was in the other room eating cake. He did happen to have a rather well known player who frequented his home and was routinely preaching the word of God on his team at the time so I am not ready to proclaim him some kind of saint without knowing all of the facts. But again, we don't know so in some regards, it might unfair to assume that part of the story was fabricated, too.

As for all of the stories that have been posted by the Gator contingent defending Meyer's actions (incredibly ironic, by the way) doesn't make what he did/didn't do right or even acceptable and I took that as the point of the article.

The bottom line, to me, is he manufactured his own exit from Florida so I don't trust a word that comes out of his mouth. If he proves me wrong while at OSU, I will gladly apologize but until that happens... if it happens at all, he is a win-at-all costs bullshitter that is only looking out for himself and his reputation.

you're right that only time will tell if meyer's rep was earned or if he was more of a victim of circumstances when it comes to the behavior of the kids on his team. as for manufacturing his departure at uf? he'd won not 1 but 2 bcs titles there. a consistent favorite for the sec title game. had a guy who was not just a Heisman winner but was someone who seemed to be a role-model for the term student athlete. his family was extremely happy in gainesville and had no desire to move. why would he scheme to leave? neither the osu nor the nd job was open at the time. would he really leave because tebow was gone? because he maybe had a down year recruiting? because he was threatened by saban's emergence? some other factor/factors? the guy is so ultra competitive, those all seem like reasons to me that he would stay.

sometimes things are what they appear on their face, w/o conspiracy. it is possible that he really did have a legitimate health scare, that he really did have no work/life balance and needed a change. and, as luck/fate would have it, soon afterward one of the only two jobs he might leave uf for would unexpectedly come open. meyer has his share of warts, but since arriving here, he's seem to be able to better channel the positives and temper his faults, w/o losing the fire that's made him a successful college coach. meyer will never be a lovable personality, or come off as appealingly (to many as you know) professorial as tressel. but he seems to be a little different here. i hope its maturity and growth as a coach and a human being. maybe its just because he hasn't lost a game yet. lol.

as for his actions/non-actions involving the behavior issues (and yes, the support for him in that vein coming from down there is pretty interesting to say the least), from this point it looks like he tried a certain approach. maybe 31 arrests in 6 years proves it was a failed approach. maybe it would have been 61 arrests if not for his efforts to reach his players off the field. we'll never know except for what was. including that he had one kid who seemed unbelievably angelic, and another who appears to have turned out to be unbelievably evil. and the inference is that meyer was somehow accountable for only the latter.

mark scott
tosu 81

I am sitting in the airport waiting for my already delayed flight so I don't have a ton of time to respond but I will the high points. Meyer saw the writing on the wall and did what he could to protect his legacy by getting out before the Gators crashed and burned. Most Gators concur with that, although it took them a little longer for them to come that conclusion than it did me.

His health and time away from his family were all rendered questionable the minute he took a job traveling the country the very next year. I didn't buy it then and I don't now which is where my distrust for him comes from. I have never been shy about my dislike for him but he is our coach and I will fully support him as I did Tressel but I really hope you are right. I hope he has learned from his past transgressions. If he has, it is a great story. If he hasn't, well... I can't say I will be shocked. Time will tell.

Go Bucks!

(By the way, I am looking forward to my next visit to Safeco tomorrow. Great, great place to watch a baseball game.)

[crayon4600]

Jul 10, 2013 5:32:01 GMT -5 beuycek said:

Mark, the connection to Hernandez's current situation is a stretch, we agree there but the criticism of his actions while at Florida is warranted.

I am sure he had many players over for bible study but I am not really sure what that proves as we weren't there. For all we know, Meyer hosted it but was in the other room eating cake. He did happen to have a rather well known player who frequented his home and was routinely preaching the word of God on his team at the time so I am not ready to proclaim him some kind of saint without knowing all of the facts. But again, we don't know so in some regards, it might unfair to assume that part of the story was fabricated, too.

As for all of the stories that have been posted by the Gator contingent defending Meyer's actions (incredibly ironic, by the way) doesn't make what he did/didn't do right or even acceptable and I took that as the point of the article.

The bottom line, to me, is he manufactured his own exit from Florida so I don't trust a word that comes out of his mouth. If he proves me wrong while at OSU, I will gladly apologize but until that happens... if it happens at all, he is a win-at-all costs bullshitter that is only looking out for himself and his reputation.

[/font]

Meyer is a migrant coaching opportunist. When Alex Smith graduated from Utah, Meyer was out of Salt Lake faster than the Lone Ranger. When Tebow graduated Meyer was looking for a exit from Gainsville. However, to some extent coaches who are 'loyal' get canned if they hang around long enough.

The nature of the beast is they have to keep moving to the next 'winning program'... if they can. Meyer has more ties to Ohio than Utah or Florida. OSU is the best program he's been associated with. The only move Meyer could make from OSU is the NFL. In the PROS you coach by committee and Meyer is a 'control freak.'

I think Meyer found a home at Columbus. I think his 'Larry Brown' days (jumping to the next winning program) are history.

[Deleted]

Mike, we'll have to agree to disagree. It's not this Gators belief that the UF program would have crashed and burned had Meyer remained with UF. UF's resulting problems after Meyer left revolved around two things:

1. The recruiting class was shot to hell and back because of the timing of the coaching change. UF way undersigned in that class.

2. Ten player transfers after the coaching change.

When you add the two events together, UF played the 11 season looking like a team that had been on probation for 2 years with significant ship reductions. The only reason UF didn't have a below .500 record on the year was because tOSU sucked in the Gator Bowl more than UF. The Gators played that game with less than 60 ship players available.

What Muschamp and UF accomplished last season borders on a miracle. The 11-1 on the regular season far exceeded expectations of most people. Given a jump in Jeff Driskel's performance which is pure speculation at this time, UF will compete with anybody in the nation this season having a ship roster at or above 80.

In any case, UF wasn't about to have a crash and burn scenario had Meyer remained with UF.

[beuycek]

It was a bit of hyperbole, Terry. Florida will never crash and burn unless they were to be hit with probation but Meyer certainly saw that his highly rated classes were not fulfilling their promise and he could not longer be the bully of the block. I like to call it Bama-itis.

[Deleted]

Bamaitis may be accurate for Meyer, but I think it was more about SECitis. Getting beat by bama was after UF played to an unbeaten regular season while absorbing pressure defending the SEC and BCS national championships in the best conference in football. Meyer physically lost 20+ pounds over the course of the season and was experiencing chest/heart pains. I think he was broken mentally and physically by the time the SECCG game rolled around. Essentially, bama was the icing on a season gone wrong for Meyer personally.

Jeremy Foley did everything he could to try to make Meyer whole again with UF. Unfortunately, Meyer couldn't fully recover. He was burned out too young.

Meyer quickly recovered after being away from coaching for a year. Taking a 6-7 tOSU team in 11 to a 12-0 team in 12 was quite an accomplishment. I can't help believing Shelley Meyer had more than a little to do with Urban's turnaround.

If Meyer breaks again in the Big Ten, he should step away from the game for good. Winning football games isn't important if the possibility of losing ones life is the price to pay.