A Spite Free Discussion About Donald Trump

[arkon]

Can any of y'all Trump supporters eXplain the fascination to me?
Seriously, I don't get it. It seems everyone is either rabidly for him or vehemently against him. I'm the latter, and I honestly can't understand how or why anyone would support him, especially after 4 years of seeing him in action.

And I promise to be civil! 👍

[AlaCowboy]

Jan 14, 2021 7:39:20 GMT -5 arkon said:

Can any of y'all Trump supporters eXplain the fascination to me?
Seriously, I don't get it. It seems everyone is either rabidly for him or vehemently against him. I'm the latter, and I honestly can't understand how or why anyone would support him, especially after 4 years of seeing him in action.

And I promise to be civil! 👍

The initial fascination with The Donald in the 2016 primary was that he said what he (and millions of other Americans) felt and believed. Once he and Hillary were the nominees, the fascination turned to a determination to keep Hillary out of the White House.
I did not care much for Trump, but knowing the evilness and crookedness of Bill and Hillary Clinton, it was easy for me to see why so many millions voted for him in 2016. In 2020? Well, his die-hard followers have lived through four years of non-stop lies about Russia buying the election in 2016 (amazing that the election could be stolen in 2016 but was impervious to being manipulated just four years later), and all the garbage from Peolsi and Schumer, and CNN and MSNBC, and the liberal media.
Trump's presidency never got fair treatment by the media or the opposition. Liberals, you included, moaned and whined about the Republicans never giving Obama support, yet never said a disapproving word about the opposition the Democrats gave Trump these last four years.
Is that spite-free enough for you?

[arkon]

Jan 14, 2021 21:41:31 GMT -5 AlaCowboy said:

Jan 14, 2021 7:39:20 GMT -5 arkon said:

Can any of y'all Trump supporters eXplain the fascination to me?
Seriously, I don't get it. It seems everyone is either rabidly for him or vehemently against him. I'm the latter, and I honestly can't understand how or why anyone would support him, especially after 4 years of seeing him in action.

And I promise to be civil! 👍

The initial fascination with The Donald in the 2016 primary was that he said what he (and millions of other Americans) felt and believed. Once he and Hillary were the nominees, the fascination turned to a determination to keep Hillary out of the White House.
I did not care much for Trump, but knowing the evilness and crookedness of Bill and Hillary Clinton, it was easy for me to see why so many millions voted for him in 2016. In 2020? Well, his die-hard followers have lived through four years of non-stop lies about Russia buying the election in 2016 (amazing that the election could be stolen in 2016 but was impervious to being manipulated just four years later), and all the garbage from Peolsi and Schumer, and CNN and MSNBC, and the liberal media.
Trump's presidency never got fair treatment by the media or the opposition. Liberals, you included, moaned and whined about the Republicans never giving Obama support, yet never said a disapproving word about the opposition the Democrats gave Trump these last four years.
Is that spite-free enough for you?

A bit testy maybe, but civil.
I understood folks voting for him for the tax cuts and deregulation, the economic side of it, and I knew he'd attract the "deplorables" -- the white supremacists and that lot. And I understood voting for Trump to vote against Hillary.
But the man himself, his policies notwithstanding, is so vile, so full of himself, so obviously corrupt. Even if I'd followed the GOP line and voted for him in '16, just his behavior since then would have been more than enough to turn me against him. It's Trump the man, rather than Trump the president, whose "charisma" I don't get.

[Walter]

I hate to tell you what I think is the basis of his appeal.
He is so vile and corrupt that people get to say, "Hell, what are you complaining about? I could be The President of the United States. He says the same things.

He normalized incivility. He normalized crude, juvenile insults. For many Republicans he made hate cool. He played to their frustration. He played to their fear and he glorified their kneejerk bigotry that tried to explain it all .

[AlaCowboy]

Jan 14, 2021 23:04:00 GMT -5 arkon said:

Jan 14, 2021 21:41:31 GMT -5 AlaCowboy said:

The initial fascination with The Donald in the 2016 primary was that he said what he (and millions of other Americans) felt and believed. Once he and Hillary were the nominees, the fascination turned to a determination to keep Hillary out of the White House.
I did not care much for Trump, but knowing the evilness and crookedness of Bill and Hillary Clinton, it was easy for me to see why so many millions voted for him in 2016. In 2020? Well, his die-hard followers have lived through four years of non-stop lies about Russia buying the election in 2016 (amazing that the election could be stolen in 2016 but was impervious to being manipulated just four years later), and all the garbage from Peolsi and Schumer, and CNN and MSNBC, and the liberal media.
Trump's presidency never got fair treatment by the media or the opposition. Liberals, you included, moaned and whined about the Republicans never giving Obama support, yet never said a disapproving word about the opposition the Democrats gave Trump these last four years.
Is that spite-free enough for you?

A bit testy maybe, but civil.
I understood folks voting for him for the tax cuts and deregulation, the economic side of it, and I knew he'd attract the "deplorables" -- the white supremacists and that lot. And I understood voting for Trump to vote against Hillary.
But the man himself, his policies notwithstanding, is so vile, so full of himself, so obviously corrupt. Even if I'd followed the GOP line and voted for him in '16, just his behavior since then would have been more than enough to turn me against him. It's Trump the man, rather than Trump the president, whose "charisma" I don't get.

In 2016, Trump got enough "Undecided" votes to become president. In 2020, those voters had seen enough that they either didn't vote, or they voted for Biden. The fact that you mentioned the "deplorables" tells me you still don't understand why the country is so divided socially and politically. Democrats claim to want to "unite" the nation but still promote classism, from race to sex to sexual orientation to ethnic identity to religion to income level. Democrats have attacked Whites, Christians, middle class taxpayers, etc., the people that work in factories and create the goods that people need or want. Democrats also urged on the rioters and looters that destroyed neighborhood stores that those "deplorables" shopped at in their neighborhoods. What cities used facial recognition to track down and arrest the rioters, looters and burners in Portland, Dallas, New York, and Minnesota that destroyed property and jobs in those cities?

[AlaCowboy]

Jan 14, 2021 23:58:17 GMT -5 Walter said:

I hate to tell you what I think is the basis of his appeal.
He is so vile and corrupt that people get to say, "Hell, what are you complaining about? I could be The President of the United States. He says the same things.

He normalized incivility. He normalized crude, juvenile insults. For many Republicans he made hate cool. He played to their frustration. He played to their fear and he glorified their kneejerk bigotry that tried to explain it all .

Walter, none are so blind as those that do not see. The crude, juvenile insults came from Democrats against Reagan, Bush 1, Bush 2, Bork, Trump and Kavanaugh, yet you pretend you never saw or heard or you just lie and claim that only Republicans could be so vile. Many of those crude insults I mentioned above came from the same Democrat leaders you support.

[arkon]

Jan 15, 2021 10:43:34 GMT -5 AlaCowboy said:

Jan 14, 2021 23:04:00 GMT -5 arkon said:

A bit testy maybe, but civil.
I understood folks voting for him for the tax cuts and deregulation, the economic side of it, and I knew he'd attract the "deplorables" -- the white supremacists and that lot. And I understood voting for Trump to vote against Hillary.
But the man himself, his policies notwithstanding, is so vile, so full of himself, so obviously corrupt. Even if I'd followed the GOP line and voted for him in '16, just his behavior since then would have been more than enough to turn me against him. It's Trump the man, rather than Trump the president, whose "charisma" I don't get.

In 2016, Trump got enough "Undecided" votes to become president. In 2020, those voters had seen enough that they either didn't vote, or they voted for Biden. The fact that you mentioned the "deplorables" tells me you still don't understand why the country is so divided socially and politically. Democrats claim to want to "unite" the nation but still promote classism, from race to sex to sexual orientation to ethnic identity to religion to income level. Democrats have attacked Whites, Christians, middle class taxpayers, etc., the people that work in factories and create the goods that people need or want. Democrats also urged on the rioters and looters that destroyed neighborhood stores that those "deplorables" shopped at in their neighborhoods. What cities used facial recognition to track down and arrest the rioters, looters and burners in Portland, Dallas, New York, and Minnesota that destroyed property and jobs in those cities?

I understand fully WHY the country is divided. Hell, we've always been divided, clear back to American revolution days. There were more than a few who didn't even want to "secede" from England.
For the record, I consider any and all those whose protests are violent as Deplorables, MAGA or BLM, if you feel you have to destroy sh*t and assault people, you're deplorable.
So I get why a lot of people who are pissed about the BLM rioters are attracted to Trump. He preaches to their choir. But being pissed that "the other side" is doing that is not carte blanche for "our side" to do the same thing.

[Panama pfRedd]

Jan 14, 2021 23:58:17 GMT -5 Walter said:

I hate to tell you what I think is the basis of his appeal.
He is so vile and corrupt that people get to say, "Hell, what are you complaining about? I could be The President of the United States. He says the same things.

He normalized incivility. He normalized crude, juvenile insults. For many Republicans he made hate cool. He played to their frustration. He played to their fear and he glorified their kneejerk bigotry that tried to explain it all .

So much for spite-free discussion...
The above highlighted spite was posted by the admin who created the "Politics Board With Rules" where the rules don't apply to him...

[oujour76]

Jan 14, 2021 7:39:20 GMT -5 arkon said:

Can any of y'all Trump supporters eXplain the fascination to me?
Seriously, I don't get it. It seems everyone is either rabidly for him or vehemently against him. I'm the latter, and I honestly can't understand how or why anyone would support him, especially after 4 years of seeing him in action.

And I promise to be civil! 👍

This reply isn't about Trump, but politics in general. Just saw this video of Ricky Gervais. He gets it...whole clip is good, but the relevant political commentary starts about the 10:30 mark.

[daleko]

Jan 15, 2021 12:00:06 GMT -5 arkon said:

But being pissed that "the other side" is doing that is not carte blanche for "our side" to do the same thing.

We shall see, politically, what happens, going forward, w the Dems in charge. Legislate from the middle out, both L & R? I doubt it. But we shall see.

[arkon]

Jan 15, 2021 14:49:42 GMT -5 oujour76 said:

Jan 14, 2021 7:39:20 GMT -5 arkon said:

Can any of y'all Trump supporters eXplain the fascination to me?
Seriously, I don't get it. It seems everyone is either rabidly for him or vehemently against him. I'm the latter, and I honestly can't understand how or why anyone would support him, especially after 4 years of seeing him in action.

And I promise to be civil! 👍

This reply isn't about Trump, but politics in general. Just saw this video of Ricky Gervais. He gets it...whole clip is good, but the relevant political commentary starts about the 10:30 mark.

He does get it, but it kinda pisses me that I'm either Hitler or Trotsky.

[arkon]

Jan 15, 2021 14:57:50 GMT -5 daleko said:

Jan 15, 2021 12:00:06 GMT -5 arkon said:

But being pissed that "the other side" is doing that is not carte blanche for "our side" to do the same thing.

We shall see, politically, what happens, going forward, w the Dems in charge. Legislate from the middle out, both L & R? I doubt it. But we shall see.

I was talking about the violence and destruction at the peaceful rallies, wink wink, but you make a valid point.
They actually might legislate from the middle out, but dollars to donuts there'll be more going to the L than the R, but you can't really eXpect anything else.
The persistent optimist in me has hopes that I'm wrong (as if that were possible 😁) but I have a feeling vthe Left Wing Squad is gonna be a thorn in Biden's side - and the centrist grown-ups' side as well.

[oujour76]

Jan 15, 2021 19:25:11 GMT -5 arkon said:

Jan 15, 2021 14:49:42 GMT -5 oujour76 said:

This reply isn't about Trump, but politics in general. Just saw this video of Ricky Gervais. He gets it...whole clip is good, but the relevant political commentary starts about the 10:30 mark.

He does get it, but it kinda pisses me that I'm either Hitler or Trotsky.

Such is life these days.

[drjensen]

Jan 14, 2021 7:39:20 GMT -5 arkon said:

Can any of y'all Trump supporters eXplain the fascination to me?
Seriously, I don't get it. It seems everyone is either rabidly for him or vehemently against him. I'm the latter, and I honestly can't understand how or why anyone would support him, especially after 4 years of seeing him in action.

And I promise to be civil! 👍

Finally, a post on here that contains substance and civility. But, after reading all of them, our illustrious administrator muddied up the waters as is his forte' and took the civility out of his response. 
As for me, I would say that not all people are necessarily vehemently for him or against him although you are correct in stating there are those who fall into those categories. 
I support him, but not vehemently. During the election of 2016 the GOP failed to nominate a candidate that could solidify it's base. He was and is an outsider, and although he is brash and arrogant, the 'truths' he tells far outweigh his exaggerations. I use the word exaggeration rather than "lie" because I am amused by the liberal faction getting caught up in mistruths and saying they merely "misspoke." I supported him back then because of what he promised the American people. When Obama ran the first time he promised to get rid of DC lobbyists and make his administration transparent. He lied. He continued to lie, but he got by with it because no one wanted to "offend" our first non-white president and therefore be called a racist. Political correctness ran amuck!!! I do not recall ever meeting or researching a politician who doesn't lie. From local small town government all the way to the top of DC. Trump told us he would expose the corruption, he would drain the swamp, and possibly that more than anything secured my vote. We have all listened to and watched politicians who have betrayed America for their own gain. Trump screwed up this time, and he screwed up badly, this is clearly evident in his loss to Biden/Harris, two very poor candidates secured by the Democrats. The GOP needs candidates like Nikki Haley and Trey Gowdy to come to leadership. Washington does need cleaned up. However, I am pretty sure that if the corruption in DC was cleaned up in one big fell swoop, our country would greatly suffer. As bad as these guys are they do do some good and to kick their collective asses out would create national and international turmoil. Saddam Hussein was hated by a major portion of the Iranian people, however, he was also admired by many. Corrupt as he was, he maintained a certain "order" with his rule and most people will accept that and go on with their daily lives knowing full well that if the corruption does affect me too much, I can live with it.
Biden is going to be our next president. I will learn to live with that, I survived through 8 years of Obama. It strikes me as odd that people were not upset with Biden when he stated he would select a woman of color to be his running mate. If Trump would have made that statement, the liberals would be screaming "racism". Whomever is selected for a leadership role should never be held to their qualifications based on their race, gender, or religion. I have always been a bit puzzled as to when a coaching position opens in the NCAA or NFL, race becomes an issue. I think the best guy/girl should be hired, regardless of race. The percentage of players of one race or the other does not seem to come into play when we are discussing the players themselves. 
Back to Trump; I have questioned people I know as to what it is they don't like about him. The answers I get usually have no validity or IMO would not disqualify him. I know men who messed around with a lot of women, single and married, who chastised him for being a player. I know women who expressed shock about Trump who, slept with every jock on the football team. People are fickle. Whether it is Trump or Biden or whoever, wouldn't it be refreshing to all of us if we could actually informed of the actual truth? As far as I know there is no network or news agency that is totally non-biased and gives us the facts. Do you believe there is no corruption in voting? Whether or not it caused a difference in the last election is now irrelevant to that election. There is corruption, as much of it as possible, should be stopped. 
I also believe something should be done about social media, again we are not being fed the truth, we are being fed whatever information the provider wants us to believe. 
As for fascination Akron, I don't think it was fascination, I think a lot of people who get up everyday, pack their lunch, head off to work, pay their taxes, and try to live an ordinary life, were just tired of the crap in Washington DC. and decided to give Trump their vote. If he had pulled in his horns, stayed off Twitter, and refrained from calling his adversaries child-like nicknames, he would have won hands down. If I am still around, 2024 is going to be really interesting. For me, I hope Biden lasts that long. 
All this, and if the Democrats had ran someone other than Hillary who had legitimate substance, Trump would not have won. 

[arkon]

Jan 16, 2021 15:53:55 GMT -5 drjensen said:

Jan 14, 2021 7:39:20 GMT -5 arkon said:

Can any of y'all Trump supporters eXplain the fascination to me?
Seriously, I don't get it. It seems everyone is either rabidly for him or vehemently against him. I'm the latter, and I honestly can't understand how or why anyone would support him, especially after 4 years of seeing him in action.

And I promise to be civil! 👍

Finally, a post on here that contains substance and civility. But, after reading all of them, our illustrious administrator muddied up the waters as is his forte' and took the civility out of his response. 
As for me, I would say that not all people are necessarily vehemently for him or against him although you are correct in stating there are those who fall into those categories. 
I support him, but not vehemently. During the election of 2016 the GOP failed to nominate a candidate that could solidify it's base. He was and is an outsider, and although he is brash and arrogant, the 'truths' he tells far outweigh his exaggerations. I use the word exaggeration rather than "lie" because I am amused by the liberal faction getting caught up in mistruths and saying they merely "misspoke." I supported him back then because of what he promised the American people. When Obama ran the first time he promised to get rid of DC lobbyists and make his administration transparent. He lied. He continued to lie, but he got by with it because no one wanted to "offend" our first non-white president and therefore be called a racist. Political correctness ran amuck!!! I do not recall ever meeting or researching a politician who doesn't lie. From local small town government all the way to the top of DC. Trump told us he would expose the corruption, he would drain the swamp, and possibly that more than anything secured my vote. We have all listened to and watched politicians who have betrayed America for their own gain. Trump screwed up this time, and he screwed up badly, this is clearly evident in his loss to Biden/Harris, two very poor candidates secured by the Democrats. The GOP needs candidates like Nikki Haley and Trey Gowdy to come to leadership. Washington does need cleaned up. However, I am pretty sure that if the corruption in DC was cleaned up in one big fell swoop, our country would greatly suffer. As bad as these guys are they do do some good and to kick their collective asses out would create national and international turmoil. Saddam Hussein was hated by a major portion of the Iranian people, however, he was also admired by many. Corrupt as he was, he maintained a certain "order" with his rule and most people will accept that and go on with their daily lives knowing full well that if the corruption does affect me too much, I can live with it.
Biden is going to be our next president. I will learn to live with that, I survived through 8 years of Obama. It strikes me as odd that people were not upset with Biden when he stated he would select a woman of color to be his running mate. If Trump would have made that statement, the liberals would be screaming "racism". Whomever is selected for a leadership role should never be held to their qualifications based on their race, gender, or religion. I have always been a bit puzzled as to when a coaching position opens in the NCAA or NFL, race becomes an issue. I think the best guy/girl should be hired, regardless of race. The percentage of players of one race or the other does not seem to come into play when we are discussing the players themselves. 
Back to Trump; I have questioned people I know as to what it is they don't like about him. The answers I get usually have no validity or IMO would not disqualify him. I know men who messed around with a lot of women, single and married, who chastised him for being a player. I know women who expressed shock about Trump who, slept with every jock on the football team. People are fickle. Whether it is Trump or Biden or whoever, wouldn't it be refreshing to all of us if we could actually informed of the actual truth? As far as I know there is no network or news agency that is totally non-biased and gives us the facts. Do you believe there is no corruption in voting? Whether or not it caused a difference in the last election is now irrelevant to that election. There is corruption, as much of it as possible, should be stopped. 
I also believe something should be done about social media, again we are not being fed the truth, we are being fed whatever information the provider wants us to believe. 
As for fascination Akron, I don't think it was fascination, I think a lot of people who get up everyday, pack their lunch, head off to work, pay their taxes, and try to live an ordinary life, were just tired of the crap in Washington DC. and decided to give Trump their vote. If he had pulled in his horns, stayed off Twitter, and refrained from calling his adversaries child-like nicknames, he would have won hands down. If I am still around, 2024 is going to be really interesting. For me, I hope Biden lasts that long. 
All this, and if the Democrats had ran someone other than Hillary who had legitimate substance, Trump would not have won. 

Okay, I exaggerated by saying "everyone" is vehemently for or against him. (I said I exaggerated rather than I misspoke -- don't wanna be labeled a liberal!)
re racism, no doubt it's becoming a mantra on The Left to scream racism, for eXample, every time a person of color is shot by the cops; regardless of circumstances it's always racially motivated. OTOH, The Right is guilty of the opposite, that race is rarely a contributing factor. If I object to athletes kneeling during the national anthem, (I do)-- am I a racist or just a guy who thinks that act is disrespectful to our flag?
One more thing, about draining the swamp. Do you really believe a lot of people Trump has brought in are any better than the swamp critters, many of whom, I'll grant you, have earned that description? Coz he sure associates with a lot of crooks.