Bono (Paul Hewson) Talks About His Faith

[daleko]

Jan 5, 2023 21:20:12 GMT -5 DrSchadenfreude said:

In your man made religion, when do you goofballs think the New Testament Church in the Holy Land, Egypt, Syria, and Greece ceased to exist?

When did the Chargers cease to exist? A current NFL team who has never won a NFL championship. Yet they were a very successful pro team in the 60s. With a championship trophy on its record. They were and always have been the same professional club. They never ceased to exist. 

[DrSchadenfreude]

Jan 5, 2023 21:20:12 GMT -5 DrSchadenfreude said:

Jan 5, 2023 20:19:53 GMT -5 daleko said:

So Christ/God created the EO? The Church of Rome? Man created both.

If you hear voices in your head, there is a term for that. Auditory hallucinations. 

Oh, I see.  So now you're claiming that the Apostle St. Luke's 1st century A.D. history of the Church-- the Acts of the Apostles-- is also fiction?

Got it.

In your man made religion, when do you goofballs think the New Testament Church in the Holy Land, Egypt, Syria, and Greece ceased to exist?

Are you not aware that the current bishops, Metropolitans, and Patriarchs of the Eastern Orthodox Churches can trace their Apostolic Succession all the way back to the Apostles?

Three questions for Daflekto.

Zero answers, as usual.

[Walter]

Jan 6, 2023 12:47:29 GMT -5 DrSchadenfreude said:

Jan 5, 2023 21:20:12 GMT -5 DrSchadenfreude said:

Oh, I see.  So now you're claiming that the Apostle St. Luke's 1st century A.D. history of the Church-- the Acts of the Apostles-- is also fiction?

Got it.

In your man made religion, when do you goofballs think the New Testament Church in the Holy Land, Egypt, Syria, and Greece ceased to exist?

Are you not aware that the current bishops, Metropolitans, and Patriarchs of the Eastern Orthodox Churches can trace their Apostolic Succession all the way back to the Apostles?

Three questions for Daflekto.

Zero answers, as usual.

My answer: No, not a fiction, but certainly a 2000 year old docudrama 'based on a true story'.

[oujour76]

Jan 6, 2023 13:48:30 GMT -5 Walter said:

Jan 6, 2023 12:47:29 GMT -5 DrSchadenfreude said:

Three questions for Daflekto.

Zero answers, as usual.

My answer: No, not a fiction, but certainly a 2000 year old docudrama 'based on a true story'.

Daleko has answers, just not the ones William is seeking.

[daleko]

Jan 6, 2023 12:47:29 GMT -5 DrSchadenfreude said:

Jan 5, 2023 21:20:12 GMT -5 DrSchadenfreude said:

Oh, I see.  So now you're claiming that the Apostle St. Luke's 1st century A.D. history of the Church-- the Acts of the Apostles-- is also fiction? Throughout Luke, the writing includes that Jesus teaches that living in God's kingdom means looking to God, rather than human effort, as the ultimate source of the things we need. Not to a man made Church but to God. The traditional view recognizes that Luke was not an eyewitness of the events in the Gospel. Referring to having eyewitness testimony of events in the Gospel "handed down to us". He told a story he heard. And he may not have been a physician. Paul do not refer to Luke as a physician. A rare position in that day. And noteworthy, if for no other reason to add value to the story.

Got it.

In your man made religion, when do you goofballs think the New Testament Church in the Holy Land, Egypt, Syria, and Greece ceased to exist? Answered.

Are you not aware that the current bishops, Metropolitans, and Patriarchs of the Eastern Orthodox Churches can trace their Apostolic Succession all the way back to the Apostles? But the Apostles would not have traced their succession forward. They had no idea where their passion would lead and didn't care. It was focused on God and Christ not toward Man made religions. The EO, Church of Rome, Baptists, Lutherans, Methodists, ..........

Three questions for Daflekto.

Zero answers, as usual.

I answered one of them. You thinken the Chargers don't exist today. The connection isn't hard, even for you.

To review: In your man made religion, when do you goofballs think the New Testament Church in the Holy Land, Egypt, Syria, and Greece ceased to exist?
When did the Chargers cease to exist? A current NFL team who has never won a NFL championship. Yet they were a very successful pro team in the 60s. With a championship trophy on its record. They were and always have been the same professional club. They never ceased to exist.

And on that note I have no further interest. The Bible today is a selection of available writings, assembled selectively by men. Not complete but complete enough to expand their selective narrative. And to emphasize their self importance.

[DrSchadenfreude]

Jan 6, 2023 14:27:42 GMT -5 oujour76 said:

Jan 6, 2023 13:48:30 GMT -5 Walter said:

My answer: No, not a fiction, but certainly a 2000 year old docudrama 'based on a true story'.

Daleko has answers, just not the ones William is seeking.

Oh, really, Harry?

Does Daleko believe that St. Luke's Acts of the Apostles is fiction-- i.e., that St. Luke was simply making up those detailed accounts of the first century history of the Church?

Post his answer to that question for the forum.

[daleko]

Jan 6, 2023 17:57:38 GMT -5 DrSchadenfreude said:

Jan 6, 2023 14:27:42 GMT -5 oujour76 said:

Daleko has answers, just not the ones William is seeking.

Oh, really, Harry?

Does Daleko believe that St. Luke's Acts of the Apostles is fiction-- i.e., that St. Luke was simply making up those detailed accounts of the first century history of the Church?

Post his answer to that question for the forum.

It wasn't an eyewitness account, so who knows. He heard it from someone, who heard it from someone, ..........

The entire answer is : Throughout Luke, the writing includes that Jesus teaches that living in God's kingdom means looking to God, rather than human effort, as the ultimate source of the things we need. Not to a man made Church but to God. The traditional view recognizes that Luke was not an eyewitness of the events in the Gospel. Referring to having eyewitness testimony of events in the Gospel "handed down to us". He told a story he heard. And he may not have been a physician. Paul do not refer to Luke as a physician. A rare position in that day. And noteworthy, if for no other reason to add value to the story.

[DrSchadenfreude]

Jan 6, 2023 18:25:48 GMT -5 daleko said:

Jan 6, 2023 17:57:38 GMT -5 DrSchadenfreude said:

Oh, really, Harry?

Does Daleko believe that St. Luke's Acts of the Apostles is fiction-- i.e., that St. Luke was simply making up those detailed accounts of the first century history of the Church?

Post his answer to that question for the forum.

It wasn't an eyewitness account, so who knows. He heard it from someone, who heard it from someone, ..........

The entire answer is : Throughout Luke, the writing includes that Jesus teaches that living in God's kingdom means looking to God, rather than human effort, as the ultimate source of the things we need. Not to a man made Church but to God. The traditional view recognizes that Luke was not an eyewitness of the events in the Gospel. Referring to having eyewitness testimony of events in the Gospel "handed down to us". He told a story he heard. And he may not have been a physician. Paul do not refer to Luke as a physician. A rare position in that day. And noteworthy, if for no other reason to add value to the story.

Dead wrong.  St. Luke not only encountered/witnessed the risen Christ on the road to Emmaus, he was intimately involved with St. Paul and the Apostles during the establishment of the Church in the first century.

What year marked the end of Luke's definitive history of the first century Church?  Do you even know?

What date do the best scholars ascribe to the composition of Luke's Gospel and accompanying Acts of the Apostles?

Like Walter, you are uneducated and poorly informed about the New Testament and the history of the Church -- and yet you presume to "teach" us.  

[oujour76]

Jan 6, 2023 17:57:38 GMT -5 DrSchadenfreude said:

Jan 6, 2023 14:27:42 GMT -5 oujour76 said:

Daleko has answers, just not the ones William is seeking.

Oh, really, Harry?

Does Daleko believe that St. Luke's Acts of the Apostles is fiction-- i.e., that St. Luke was simply making up those detailed accounts of the first century history of the Church?

Post his answer to that question for the forum.

He’s already posted his answer.

[oujour76]

Jan 6, 2023 19:53:13 GMT -5 DrSchadenfreude said:

Jan 6, 2023 18:25:48 GMT -5 daleko said:

It wasn't an eyewitness account, so who knows. He heard it from someone, who heard it from someone, ..........

The entire answer is : Throughout Luke, the writing includes that Jesus teaches that living in God's kingdom means looking to God, rather than human effort, as the ultimate source of the things we need. Not to a man made Church but to God. The traditional view recognizes that Luke was not an eyewitness of the events in the Gospel. Referring to having eyewitness testimony of events in the Gospel "handed down to us". He told a story he heard. And he may not have been a physician. Paul do not refer to Luke as a physician. A rare position in that day. And noteworthy, if for no other reason to add value to the story.

Dead wrong.  St. Luke not only encountered/witnessed the risen Christ on the road to Emmaus, he was intimately involved with St. Paul and the Apostles during the establishment of the Church in the first century.

What year marked the end of Luke's definitive history of the first century Church?  Do you even know?

What date do the best scholars ascribe to the composition of Luke's Gospel and accompanying Acts of the Apostles?

Like Walter, you are uneducated and poorly informed about the New Testament and the history of the Church -- and yet you presume to "teach" us.  

Told ya you wouldn’t like his answer.

[daleko]

Jan 6, 2023 19:53:13 GMT -5 DrSchadenfreude said:

Jan 6, 2023 18:25:48 GMT -5 daleko said:

It wasn't an eyewitness account, so who knows. He heard it from someone, who heard it from someone, ..........

The entire answer is : Throughout Luke, the writing includes that Jesus teaches thatone needed to focus on God living in God's kingdom means looking to God, rather than human effort, as the ultimate source of the things we need. Not to a man made Church but to God. The traditional view recognizes that Luke was not an eyewitness of the events in the Gospel. Referring to having eyewitness testimony of events in the Gospel "handed down to us". He told a story he heard. And he may not have been a physician. Paul do not refer to Luke as a physician. A rare position in that day. And noteworthy, if for no other reason to add value to the story.

Dead wrong.  
Like Walter, you are uneducated and poorly informed about the New Testament and the history of the Church -- and yet you presume to "teach" us.  

You want to now pivot w more Qs. But let us stay on point re Luke.  It is accepted that Luke is an interesting writer because he did not know Jesus Christ personally. He became a follower after Christ’s death, when Paul taught him the gospel. you need to bone up a bit. 

Luke had been a physician, but he left that profession to travel with Paul. even that contention is today being questioned. The patron saint of physicians may not have been one. Anyway, as I have previously noted, it is accepted that Luke never met Christ. But his writings strongly supported that Christ taught that one needed to look to God as the ultimate source of things we need. Not man or any creation of man. 

[daleko]

Jan 6, 2023 23:33:52 GMT -5 oujour76 said:

Jan 6, 2023 19:53:13 GMT -5 DrSchadenfreude said:

Dead wrong.  St. Luke not only encountered/witnessed the risen Christ on the road to Emmaus, he was intimately involved with St. Paul and the Apostles during the establishment of the Church in the first century.

What year marked the end of Luke's definitive history of the first century Church?  Do you even know?

What date do the best scholars ascribe to the composition of Luke's Gospel and accompanying Acts of the Apostles?

Like Walter, you are uneducated and poorly informed about the New Testament and the history of the Church -- and yet you presume to "teach" us.  

Told ya you wouldn’t like his answer.

He means well but he gets confused easily. Luke, in Luke 24:13-35, WROTE about the Emmaus story and it is one of Luke's most exquisite literary achievements. It describes the encounter on the road to Emmaus and the supper at Emmaus, and states that a disciple named Cleopas was walking towards Emmaus with another disciple when they met the reincarnated Jesus. They did not recognize him, and discussed their sadness at recent events with him. They persuaded him to come and eat with them, and at the meal they recognized him.

The whole narrative is not necessarily meant to be taken literally. It's a journey of faith. It is an example used to perceive Christian spiritual growth and a model for a Christians' own journey to a deeper faith and as an instrument to help others on the same journey.

Rembrandt painted a picture about the narrative. As have a dozen other noted artists. Carl Jung regarded the road to Emmaus appearance as a mythological example of the common dream theme of the magical traveling companion. 

But in the end, Luke never met Christ, actually, as I noted, wasn't a convert until after Christ was crucified. As such, he was not a first hand witness that Ambrose contends. Interesting that Luke worked w another Biblical author Paul, who also never met the human Christ, when he was on earth. His conversion is told in narratives best described as a divine conversion, through a vision. Essentially he too doesn't have a 1st person view of the life of Christ. 

[DrSchadenfreude]

Jan 7, 2023 0:16:49 GMT -5 daleko said:

Jan 6, 2023 19:53:13 GMT -5 DrSchadenfreude said:

Dead wrong.  
Like Walter, you are uneducated and poorly informed about the New Testament and the history of the Church -- and yet you presume to "teach" us.  

You want to now pivot w more Qs. But let us stay on point re Luke.  It is accepted that Luke is an interesting writer because he did not know Jesus Christ personally. He became a follower after Christ’s death, when Paul taught him the gospel. you need to bone up a bit. 

Luke had been a physician, but he left that profession to travel with Paul. even that contention is today being questioned. The patron saint of physicians may not have been one. Anyway, as I have previously noted, it is accepted that Luke never met Christ. But his writings strongly supported that Christ taught that one needed to look to God as the ultimate source of things we need. Not man or any creation of man. 

Dead wrong.  Are you getting your disinformation from the Mormons?

St. Luke was one of the two men who met Christ on the road to Emmaus.  

And you're dead wrong (above) about St. Luke not being a firsthand witness of the history of the founding of the Church, as documented in his book, the Acts of the Apostles.

You have even contradicted yourself, by admitting (above) that St Luke knew the Apostle Paul.  Another Daleko reductio ad absurdum.

Now, answer my original question that you keep dodging-- with lying Harry's help.

Are you claiming that Luke's Acts of the Apostles is fiction-- i.e., that Luke was simply making up his detailed history of the first century Church?

[daleko]

Jan 7, 2023 11:46:31 GMT -5 DrSchadenfreude said:

Jan 7, 2023 0:16:49 GMT -5 daleko said:

You want to now pivot w more Qs. But let us stay on point re Luke.  It is accepted that Luke is an interesting writer because he did not know Jesus Christ personally. He became a follower after Christ’s death, when Paul taught him the gospel. you need to bone up a bit. 

Luke had been a physician, but he left that profession to travel with Paul. even that contention is today being questioned. The patron saint of physicians may not have been one. Anyway, as I have previously noted, it is accepted that Luke never met Christ. But his writings strongly supported that Christ taught that one needed to look to God as the ultimate source of things we need. Not man or any creation of man. 

Dead wrong.  Are you getting your disinformation from the Mormons?

St. Luke was one of the two men who met Christ on the road to Emmaus.  NOPE. You need to read Luke from whatever Bible you wish. 

And you're dead wrong (above) about St. Luke not being a firsthand witness of the history of the founding of the Church, as documented in his book, the Acts of the Apostles.

You have even contradicted yourself, by admitting (above) that St Luke knew the Apostle Paul.  Another Daleko reductio ad absurdum.

Now, answer my original question that you keep dodging-- with lying Harry's help.

Are you claiming that Luke's Acts of the Apostles is fiction-- i.e., that Luke was simply making up his detailed history of the first century Church? No, for now let's stay w your misunderstanding of of what the narrative about the road to Emmaus was all about.

[daleko]

13 Now that same day two of them were going to a village called Emmaus, about seven miles from Jerusalem. 14 They were talking with each other about everything that had happened. 15 As they talked and discussed these things with each other, Jesus himself came up and walked along with them; 16 but they were kept from recognizing him.

17 He asked them, “What are you discussing together as you walk along?”

They stood still, their faces downcast. 18 One of them, named Cleopas, asked him, “Are you the only one visiting Jerusalem who does not know the things that have happened there in these days?”

19 “What things?” he asked.

“About Jesus of Nazareth,” they replied. “He was a prophet, powerful in word and deed before God and all the people. 20 The chief priests and our rulers handed him over to be sentenced to death, and they crucified him; 21 but we had hoped that he was the one who was going to redeem Israel. And what is more, it is the third day since all this took place. 22 In addition, some of our women amazed us. They went to the tomb early this morning 23 but didn’t find his body. They came and told us that they had seen a vision of angels, who said he was alive. 24 Then some of our companions went to the tomb and found it just as the women had said, but they did not see Jesus.”

25 He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?” 27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.

28 As they approached the village to which they were going, Jesus continued on as if he were going farther. 29 But they urged him strongly, “Stay with us, for it is nearly evening; the day is almost over.” So he went in to stay with them.

30 When he was at the table with them, he took bread, gave thanks, broke it and began to give it to them. 31 Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he disappeared from their sight. 32 They asked each other, “Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?”

33 They got up and returned at once to Jerusalem. There they found the Eleven and those with them, assembled together 34 and saying, “It is true! The Lord has risen and has appeared to Simon.” 35 Then the two told what had happened on the way, and how Jesus was recognized by them when he broke the bread.