Why Is the IRS Involved in Seizing 4473's?

[dilligaf]

ARMED IRS and ATF agents raided a gun store to seize ALL of its 4473's.
WHY were they raided to take documents that the gov't is not supposed to have blanket access to, and WHY was the IRS involved?   There is absolutely NO financial info on a 4473, but think about it.   Now Bitem's IRS has the info they can use to identify and attack every person who has bought a gun from that particular store, which has a reputation for selling a lot of perfectly legal sporting rifles, including AR's and AK's.
In total, FIVE different federal agencies have been involved in attacking this one store, as you will hear in the video.

What in hell is going on here?

[Panama pfRedd]

Jun 17, 2023 15:15:15 GMT -5 dilligaf said:

ARMED IRS and ATF agents raided a gun store to seize ALL of its 4473's.
WHY were they raided to take documents that the gov't is not supposed to have blanket access to, and WHY was the IRS involved?   There is absolutely NO financial info on a 4473, but think about it.   Now Bitem's IRS has the info they can use to identify and attack every person who has bought a gun from that particular store, which has a reputation for selling a lot of perfectly legal sporting rifles, including AR's and AK's.
In total, FIVE different federal agencies have been involved in attacking this one store, as you will hear in the video.

What in hell is going on here?

FACISM.
TYRANNY.
THE 'NAZI' PARTY.

[nu5ncbigred]

There are far more relevant records that the IRS could have taken for tax enforcement purposes but did not. The 4473 Would have no financial into. So what was the price each customer paid? What was the cost to the store to get the gun? How will the IRS know if the store made $200 or $1 on each gun or lost money on a model as a loss leader to encourage overall sales? The # of guns sold is no indication of that. They got their hands on the # and type of guns purchased by many ordinary citizens over a period of time that they and the federal government had no right to possess

[nu5ncbigred]

Jun 17, 2023 15:15:15 GMT -5 dilligaf said:

ARMED IRS and ATF agents raided a gun store to seize ALL of its 4473's.
WHY were they raided to take documents that the gov't is not supposed to have blanket access to, and WHY was the IRS involved?   There is absolutely NO financial info on a 4473, but think about it.   Now Bitem's IRS has the info they can use to identify and attack every person who has bought a gun from that particular store, which has a reputation for selling a lot of perfectly legal sporting rifles, including AR's and AK's.
In total, FIVE different federal agencies have been involved in attacking this one store, as you will hear in the video.

What in hell is going on here?

They are likely looking for records of people living in blue states who bought weapons on line from them so that they can tip off California, New York, Illinois,etc.regimes. That’s my guess.

[dilligaf]

Jun 17, 2023 15:29:58 GMT -5 Panama pfRedd said:

Jun 17, 2023 15:15:15 GMT -5 dilligaf said:

ARMED IRS and ATF agents raided a gun store to seize ALL of its 4473's.
WHY were they raided to take documents that the gov't is not supposed to have blanket access to, and WHY was the IRS involved?   There is absolutely NO financial info on a 4473, but think about it.   Now Bitem's IRS has the info they can use to identify and attack every person who has bought a gun from that particular store, which has a reputation for selling a lot of perfectly legal sporting rifles, including AR's and AK's.
In total, FIVE different federal agencies have been involved in attacking this one store, as you will hear in the video.

What in hell is going on here?

FACISM.
TYRANNY.
THE 'NAZI' PARTY.

Of course.

[dilligaf]

Jun 17, 2023 20:12:54 GMT -5 nu5ncbigred said:

Jun 17, 2023 15:15:15 GMT -5 dilligaf said:

ARMED IRS and ATF agents raided a gun store to seize ALL of its 4473's.
WHY were they raided to take documents that the gov't is not supposed to have blanket access to, and WHY was the IRS involved?   There is absolutely NO financial info on a 4473, but think about it.   Now Bitem's IRS has the info they can use to identify and attack every person who has bought a gun from that particular store, which has a reputation for selling a lot of perfectly legal sporting rifles, including AR's and AK's.
In total, FIVE different federal agencies have been involved in attacking this one store, as you will hear in the video.

What in hell is going on here?

They are likely looking for records of people living in blue states who bought weapons on line from them so that they can tip off California, New York, Illinois,etc.regimes. That’s my guess.

Why would that matter?
FFL holders will not ship "evil, forbidden" guns to tyrant states.

[Panama pfRedd]

Jun 17, 2023 22:49:14 GMT -5 dilligaf said:

Jun 17, 2023 20:12:54 GMT -5 nu5ncbigred said:

They are likely looking for records of people living in blue states who bought weapons on line from them so that they can tip off California, New York, Illinois,etc.regimes. That’s my guess.

Why would that matter?
FFL holders will not ship "evil, forbidden" guns to tyrant states.

Exactly. Only criminals do such things.

[dilligaf]

Jun 17, 2023 23:47:00 GMT -5 Panama pfRedd said:

Jun 17, 2023 22:49:14 GMT -5 dilligaf said:

Why would that matter?
FFL holders will not ship "evil, forbidden" guns to tyrant states.

Exactly. Only criminals do such things.

Congressman Matt Rosendale is demanding answers to the feds' blatantly illegal activities.
This isn't over by any means.

[Walter]

Jun 18, 2023 1:10:07 GMT -5 dilligaf said:

Jun 17, 2023 23:47:00 GMT -5 Panama pfRedd said:

Exactly. Only criminals do such things.

Congressman Matt Rosendale is demanding answers to the feds' blatantly illegal activities.
This isn't over by any means.

If the actions were illegal, the shop owner can go to court and fight it. He has not, so far at least, done so.

This is not over, as you say, so I suggest you refrain from drawing any rash conclusions not borne out by the facts.

[dilligaf]

Jun 18, 2023 8:42:48 GMT -5 Walter said:

Jun 18, 2023 1:10:07 GMT -5 dilligaf said:

Congressman Matt Rosendale is demanding answers to the feds' blatantly illegal activities.
This isn't over by any means.

If the actions were illegal, the shop owner can go to court and fight it. He has not, so far at least, done so.

This is not over, as you say, so I suggest you refrain from drawing any rash conclusions not borne out by the facts.

The FACTS are, that there is nothing on a Form 4473 that is of any value to the IRS, other than names and addresses that can be used to harass lawful gun owners.

I'm sure the shop owner is weighing his options.  There is no need to rush into a lawsuit.

We'll see how deeply Congress decides to dig into this violation of Americans' rights.

IF it is legal, ATF and the IRS should be able to easily explain how.

Have you ever even SEEN a 4473?
Here you go:

www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4473-part-1-firearms-transaction-record-over-counter-atf-form-53009/download

[cbisbig]

Jun 18, 2023 8:42:48 GMT -5 Walter said:

Jun 18, 2023 1:10:07 GMT -5 dilligaf said:

Congressman Matt Rosendale is demanding answers to the feds' blatantly illegal activities.
This isn't over by any means.

If the actions were illegal, the shop owner can go to court and fight it. He has not, so far at least, done so.

This is not over, as you say, so I suggest you refrain from drawing any rash conclusions not borne out by the facts.

[/b]

Lol
I suggest you do the same

[daleko]

Jun 17, 2023 15:15:15 GMT -5 dilligaf said:

ARMED IRS and ATF agents raided a gun store to seize ALL of its 4473's.
WHY were they raided to take documents that the gov't is not supposed to have blanket access to, and WHY was the IRS involved?   There is absolutely NO financial info on a 4473, but think about it.   Now Bitem's IRS has the info they can use to identify and attack every person who has bought a gun from that particular store, which has a reputation for selling a lot of perfectly legal sporting rifles, including AR's and AK's.
In total, FIVE different federal agencies have been involved in attacking this one store, as you will hear in the video.

What in hell is going on here?

Who owns the forms Mutt? The .Gov. The FFL stores them. 

Something about this story stinks. 

There are only 2,000 IRS Special Agents in the country. And they are the only ones armed. BumFucq Montana doesn't seem to be big enough to attract them. But I guess I could be wrong. 

[Walter]

Jun 19, 2023 1:08:46 GMT -5 daleko said:

Jun 17, 2023 15:15:15 GMT -5 dilligaf said:

ARMED IRS and ATF agents raided a gun store to seize ALL of its 4473's.
WHY were they raided to take documents that the gov't is not supposed to have blanket access to, and WHY was the IRS involved?   There is absolutely NO financial info on a 4473, but think about it.   Now Bitem's IRS has the info they can use to identify and attack every person who has bought a gun from that particular store, which has a reputation for selling a lot of perfectly legal sporting rifles, including AR's and AK's.
In total, FIVE different federal agencies have been involved in attacking this one store, as you will hear in the video.

What in hell is going on here?

Who owns the forms Mutt? The .Gov. The FFL stores them. 

Something about this story stinks. 

There are only 2,000 IRS Special Agents in the country. And they are the only ones armed. BumFucq Montana doesn't seem to be big enough to attract them. But I guess I could be wrong. 

I agree. Sounds odd. Perhaps the IRS is not be the lead agency in the matter. The gun shop itself may not even be the target.
<shrug> No reason to speculate. We will find out in due time.

[dilligaf]

Jun 19, 2023 1:08:46 GMT -5 daleko said:

Jun 17, 2023 15:15:15 GMT -5 dilligaf said:

ARMED IRS and ATF agents raided a gun store to seize ALL of its 4473's.
WHY were they raided to take documents that the gov't is not supposed to have blanket access to, and WHY was the IRS involved?   There is absolutely NO financial info on a 4473, but think about it.   Now Bitem's IRS has the info they can use to identify and attack every person who has bought a gun from that particular store, which has a reputation for selling a lot of perfectly legal sporting rifles, including AR's and AK's.
In total, FIVE different federal agencies have been involved in attacking this one store, as you will hear in the video.

What in hell is going on here?

Who owns the forms Mutt? The .Gov. The FFL stores them. 

Something about this story stinks. 

There are only 2,000 IRS Special Agents in the country. And they are the only ones armed. BumFucq Montana doesn't seem to be big enough to attract them. But I guess I could be wrong. 

The forms belong to ATF, and it is specifically illegal for ATF to compile a list of gunowners based on 4473's. 
There is absolutely NO reason for ATF to remove those forms from the premises, other than using the pertinent ones to prosecute an individual for misrepresenting himself to the ATF.

I wasn't in the store.  The store owner WAS.  I'll take HIS estimate of the number of armed Bitem-controlled thugs.
Maybe at some point, someone will release the store's security camera footage, so we can count for ourselves.  He said the thugs were cordial and pleasant, but no one would tell him why they were there, and the copy of the search warrant he was given had many redacted portions in it.
The store owner also said he has a good relationship with ATF, but he believes this raid was political because he sells a lot of LEGAL AR and AK styled rifles.

There is no information on a 4473 that is useful to the IRS.

[Walter]

Jun 19, 2023 20:06:10 GMT -5 dilligaf said:

Jun 19, 2023 1:08:46 GMT -5 daleko said:

Who owns the forms Mutt? The .Gov. The FFL stores them. 

Something about this story stinks. 

There are only 2,000 IRS Special Agents in the country. And they are the only ones armed. BumFucq Montana doesn't seem to be big enough to attract them. But I guess I could be wrong. 

The forms belong to ATF, and it is specifically illegal for ATF to compile a list of gunowners based on 4473's. 
There is absolutely NO reason for ATF to remove those forms from the premises, other than using the pertinent ones to prosecute an individual for misrepresenting himself to the ATF.

I wasn't in the store.  The store owner WAS.  I'll take HIS estimate of the number of armed Bitem-controlled thugs.
Maybe at some point, someone will release the store's security camera footage, so we can count for ourselves.  He said the thugs were cordial and pleasant, but no one would tell him why they were there, and the copy of the search warrant he was given had many redacted portions in it.
The store owner also said he has a good relationship with ATF, but he believes this raid was political because he sells a lot of LEGAL AR and AK styled rifles.

There is no information on a 4473 that is useful to the IRS.

Just so we will have some reference if we ever see this tape, what exactly would you say constitutes, 'heavily armed' as opposed to 'armed'? What should we see these twenty agents carrying to cross that threshold from armed to heavily armed?